Bayshore Marathon Short?

That said, I just attributed it to my Garmin.

Found a Strava upload of 26.01. There is absolutely GPS but in my 10+ marathons (big and small!) I’ve never had a recording less than 26.22. I’m a relatively fast (2:20s) guy, so I can and do run the tangents in all but the biggest races.

Super frustrating, but runners should vote with their wallets and not do races that don’t take integrity seriously.

Editing my typo.

If you look at the GPS route on Strava of the runners it shows them going through the water and people's yards at certain points. Safe to say the GPS signal on a tree covered, windy road in Northern Michigan is not going to be the most accurate.

Out of curiosity, do you resume/finish that out after you make your way out of the finishing area? It would drive me nuts not to have a full marathon registered with Garmin, Strava, my brain, etc. but I obsess over data.

Check out pictures from the two OTQers:

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Bayshore Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, & Kids Fun Run

The Bayshore Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, & Kids Fun Run is on Thursday May 25, 2023 to Saturday May 27, 2023. It includes the following events: Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, Bayshore Kids Marathon, Ali on the Run & Emma Bat...

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runsignup.com

Bayshore Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, & Kids Fun Run

The Bayshore Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, & Kids Fun Run is on Thursday May 25, 2023 to Saturday May 27, 2023. It includes the following events: Marathon, Half Marathon, 10K, Bayshore Kids Marathon, Ali on the Run & Emma Bat...

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Both runners are clearly running on the left side of the road and in some of the pictures from this spot you can see the 6 mile marker, so isn't in the part of the course where you can use the full road (per Mike's response on the prior page).

Is there any doubt after seeing this that they cut the course? Anything we're missing?

I didn't realize it until later, I didn't even look at my Garmin when I stopped it. I probably would have continued on as I only needed .02 to get the 26.2 and really I would have just kept the Garmin going through the finish area. But typically I don't find the need to round up (if I'm at 4.98 say I don't feel compelled to make it 5 even).

Impressive detective work (and wholly agreed, it’s pretty clear). I had wanted to run this race this year for OTQ attempt, but the elite field had “filled” by the time I got to it - very glad I didn’t. Would be so frustrating for all that hard work to go into yet another race that race directors have botched.

Thanks, not sure it's actually frustrating for them though - they may not have qualified in a race where they had to run the full distance, so likely lucked out. You might regret not running this one if you run 2:18:30 elsewhere!

Man, you guys must be fun at parties.

The course is certified.

Runners ran the route available to them.

The times count.

Alan

I know "GPS isn't everything". But in the UK when nearly everyone's watches measured a bit short for the Greater Manchester Marathon, the course measurement guys remeasured it, and found that it was short. It was short primarily because the calibrated wheel used to measure the course layout was badly calibrated (and so were quite a few other races measured by the same team).

Short GPS isn't a guarantee of a badly measured course; but it is definitely worth investigating by the race organisers if they want to maintain integrity and good course measurement officials and race organisers take note of this sort of thing.

http://coursemeasurement.org.uk/investigations/shortcalcourseinvestigation.htm

http://coursemeasurement.org.uk/investigations/manchestermarathon.htm

(Generally, cutting corners will shorten distances on GPS. But running in a straight line when measured using GPS will nearly always result in a GPS trace longer than the straight line as the GPS measurement will veer side to side slightly, hence why most course, most of the time, will measure long on GPS, even before issues arise of runners not running on precisely the line measured by the course measurers. This doesn't always hold true, and 180deg turn around points are often a good source of shorter distances being measured, but unless there is tonnes of tree cover (e.g. on a trail run) race courses on street courses should be expected to measure long with GPS - IMHO and experience!)

It’s not about being a hater, the certification of a course is completely meaningless if the certified route isn’t followed which it was not. It doesn’t matter if a track is 400m if we let people cut into the grass.

Did the rules for the race stipulate that runners should remain to the right of the yellow lines or in the right hand bike lane for that stretch of the race?

No there was no indication that I recall to stay on the right side of the road up until we met the half marathoners coming the opposite direction.

The rules of the individual race are irrelevant here. The certified course was measured keeping runners on the right side of the road. Therefore times run outside of this course are not valid. It’s not about blaming the runners, race organizers should not allow this to happen, I’m sure no one was cutting distance intentionally

There weren't cones on much of the course

Thank you. Let me preface this by saying that I have no dog in this hunt.

I'm just curious because after looking at the photos linked above it seems that either 1) runners should have been told not to run into the oncoming lane and there would be cones and marshals making sure that happened (and aid stations would be on the side of the road where you intend the runners to be), OR, 2) everyone should have been running on the left side of the road to benefit from the tangent.

So, was it the case here that only a few people ran on the left side or did almost everyone do that?

And if the course was measured around the wide side (staying to the right), why in the world wouldn't the officials announce that and enforce that the course is run that way and indicate that with cones?

Was that road open? Were the people who crossed the road to run the tangent risking oncoming traffic to do so?

When there weren't cones and before the half marathoners were meeting the marathoners in the opposite direction people were running in the full road. And again on the way back once all the back of the packers had passed by people were using the full road again. In fact I ran from the right side of the road to the left to give my husband and friends a high five. There were aid stations both sides because it is an out and back. In one of the spots where there were cones I happened to run outside of them (a longer path) because I just happened to come up on them, they weren't there the whole way and they were on a curve. The road was not open, no traffic. No indication to stay on a particular side of the road, just stay to the right when there were runners running in both directions.

All of the roads were closed to vehicle traffic, but the half-marathoners were running point-to-point on the other side of the road (and, as you got closer into the finish, both marathoners and half-marathoners converged with the 10k runners).