Its finally happening! Super shoes are cancelled!

I've seen people climbing Everest in crowds that are as bad as I-270 at rush hour!

The only people defending the shoes are people that are currently benefiting from the shoes.

Sucks knowing that your accomplishments aren’t your own.

If the shoes aren’t providing an advantage, race without them.

First. The step change in fast performances are due to footwear. That is a fact. Nothing else rationally explains otherwise. Not tracks, not the internet, not 6th years. It’s the shoes. Get over it.

My uneducated take below:

That said, I think people misunderstand HOW the shoes are driving the fast times. It’s not the spikes - the spikes are better and they help a bit, particularly over the mile distance, but it’s not like you can put on dragonfly’s and get 3-4 seconds faster.

it’s the fact that the shoes worn in training, including dragonfly’s, allow runners to train harder and recover faster. Workouts can be longer and the paces can be faster with no real incremental injury risk and a quick turnaround for an additional session that use to be a rest day.

the reason you don’t see the same boost among the best in the world is because they already train at the limits of human performance. They already live lifestyles that revolve around training hard and recovering. The incremental benefit of shoe tech in training is not as significant in a percentage basis — the exception is the clear advancement in road racing times. However, college and high school kids who were undertrained to begin with can now offset their typically bad lifestyle choices and lack of access to perfect conditions etc. are able to train much harder now. Therefore, the biggest changes in times are happening in the NCAA not in the diamond league.

They will downvote you but they won't race without their supershoes.

Things like shot put haven’t improved. The HS record was set in 1979. Most years the best don’t get within 10 feet of it.

I think Dragonflies are only 0.5s/lap faster. However, they preserve your legs a lot so you can kick faster.

The main benefit of supershoes is faster training with more recovery - I ran a workout of 6x1600 around 4:50 with 1:30 rest in between and it felt close to threshold effort (probably 10 mile though). If I did this in normal shoes, it'd take me 4 days to recover

The Diamond League/World Indoor Tour is getting faster however at 3K+. Fastest since the 90s when EPO is the prevailing theory. And there were more outlier athletes then. Jacob Kiplimo and Aregawi are great don’t get me wrong but they don’t have big separation from the rest like Geb/Tergat did. There’s never been more 12:45/26:30 guys. The training theory is interesting, but I still think it’s the race day effect mostly. High school kids race in much better setups, forgoing their high school teams etc at a much higher rate nowadays. College guys race for time in perfect indoor track setups. That with spikes gives you a few seconds.

There are two big talents in the 1500 in Jakob and Tim. Both should be 3:27 guys, though Jakob is probably better suited for chasing the 3k/5k world record. There are a ton of 3:29-3:30 guys. There’s plenty of boost to me, seeing guys like Mario Garcia Romo, Sam Tanner or Katir run so fast.

Now do the pole vault post-1962 (steel to fiberglass) to the present...

Super road shoes have had a much bigger impact than modern super spikes.

1.7% improvement on avg for elite runners with super road flats

0.6% improvement on avg for super spikes.

Cheptegei times translate to 12:40 and 26:20 pre super spikes approximately

Kipchoges translate to 2:03:12 and 2:01:36 pre super flats approximately

Definitely agree. However I meant both sides, direct times and training benefit. If an athlete can train more with less leg soreness, there’s a larger advantage. Very difficult to measure however.

I dont think so !!! In 2004 at Hengelo Bekele did 12:37 as 5000 WR. So you want to tell me that a great talented runner like Cheptegei is or Kiplimo or others of the new generation of Top Runners are not able or is impossible to run 2 seconds faster than Bekele records after almost 20 years. Or that these records are only because the shoes ?? No way. Dennis Kimetto run with no Supershoes ( by the way I would ban the word supershoes because is really a terrible name , there is nothing super about those shoes and I ve tried them all , they are just great shoes , with great foam but they dont have any mechanical or electronic sistem of propulsion so stop talking nonsense they are just good shoes but nothing super about them). This been said I was talking about 2014 Kimetto 2:02:57 . Now with all respect for Kimetto I cannot compare him to Kipchoge . And Kipchoge is able to run 2:01:09 in 2022 after 8 years from Kimetto records . That kind of improvment is normal because I consider Kipchoge a much better runner than Kimetto. But I want to follow just for a moment your theory. Let's say that the new type of shoes make you gain 1 minute in the marathon . So Kipchoge 2:01:09 would translate in 2:02:09. Just 48 seconds better than Kimetto records ???? NO WAY!!!!! Kipchoge and also Bekele are in another category. Is not possible that their Marathon pb would be so similar to Kimetto. Me as an amateur I did all my personal best before the new type of shoes era. I must say that they are great shoes , love to run in them . But what makes the difference at 99,9% are your legs , your training , peds if you use it. The advantage of the new type of shoes is very minimal and anyway it works if you run at a very high speed as a way to lessen the discomfort and pain in your feet and legs from pounding the ground during races

You’re overthinking. Yes, Bekele was amazing. If he had the shoes yes sir, 12:32-12:33. Enjoy his greatness rather than devalue the super shoe. It can go both ways. Take a deep breath.

For a long time sub 4 has only meant one has crossed the threshold into elite status. The real question is how many have recently joined the sub 3:50 club. That seems to me to be a lot more of an exclusive group.

the value of a 3:26 1500 has gone right out the window, these new magic spikes just obliterated it

And yet no one has touched the record making 3:26.00 that much more impressive.

I think the super spikes make even less of a difference in the mile/1500. This is because the benefit of the foam is that it saves your legs of dealing with the stress of impact while returning maximum energy return.

I have been saying this for so long!!! Do they still shoot a basketball into a peach barrel?? The track community has a hard time embracing advancements of our sport

10 men ran sub-3:32 in 2018. None of them have run 3:27 with Dragonflies.

3 men ran sub 12:50 in 2018. None of them have broken 12:40 with Dragonflies.

Anyone who believes these spikes are worth 1 second per lap is an idiot.

The carbon plate is physics really. It’s stiff. You bend it, and it returns to its normal state after push off. Just like pole vault poles. They are rated on stiffness. The lighter athletes who can get on and use stiffer poles vault higher. Lighter runners who can use stiffer carbon plates run faster. It’s not exactly rocket science.

What a stupid comment. Lord I know LRC can be cesspool at times but my god I think that takes the cake. Wow!