Martina Navratilova has words for Lia Thomas

Why don't you ask some female runners who have lost out to men identifying as women, what they think?

Maybe we should enter a chimpanzee who identifies as a human in the Olympics 800m. Great for the sport if we see the first sub 1 minute 800m. It would prove no human is limited.

So you tell that to women who have been sexually abused by their coaches, trainers, doctors or other men of power? It was less serious because all the abusers were cis men?

How about women who were denied to play the sports they wanted to play because they were women? Not being allowed to run a marathon was no big deal because they didn't lose to a trans runner after all?

the guy literally typed "Getting raped is like being forced to eat cake" as the opening to his post

and your response was "I agree"

What happened to measure of testosterone? IAAF now does that. Below a number = female, above = male

Curious as to why you think F to M competitors in men's sports would be unfair to men in skill-based sports like archery and shooting?

I support Leah and all trans individuals to live their life in every way as they're chosen gender. I include competition in that.

IAAF changed its name to World Athletics in 2019.

But WA rules have never applied to Lia Thomas anyways.

If Thomas continued trying to compete in women's swimming, Thomas would have to abide by the present-day rules of FINA, the world governing body for elite aquatics.

In June of 2022, FINA instituted new rules requiring all athletes in elite swimming, diving, water polo etc. to undergo sex chromosome testing initially performed under the direction of their national federations and repeated again by FINA. This is to help insure that athletes in girls' and women's FINA-regulated events have female genetics/DNA.

Persons with male genetics can apply for eligibility in women's and girls' FINA events. But they can only obtain eligibility if they can demonstrate that since age 12 or Tanner Stage 2, whichever came first, their testosterone level has always been below 2.5 nmol/L.

The rules governing eligibility for the female category in elite track & field have gone through two major sea changes in the era since IAAF changed its name to World Athletics.

After the CAS issued its decision in the Semenya case in 2019, new regulations came into force that tightened the eligibility criteria for XY DSD athletes in women's competition, albeit only in middle-distance events.

This year, WA's eligibility criteria for both XY DSD athletes and trans-identified male athletes in women's competition were tightened much further.

Now WA requires XY DSD athletes to lower their testosterone to below 2.5 nmol/L for 24 consecutive months before becoming eligible for competition in all/any women's events.

As for trans-identified males, WA now automatically bars them from all/any women's events unless they can show that since Tanner Stage 2, or age 12, whichever came first, their T levels have always been under 2.5 nmol/L.

But this doesn't mean that in track & field, or in any other sport, the rule is that if an athlete's T is "below a number = female, above = male."

The (mostly) men who make the rules at WA and most other sports governing bodies seem well aware that female and male are not defined by T levels, and that a different level of natural T during certain phases of life is just one of thousands of physical features that distinguish human males from human females in particular.

The T levels used in the past by the IAAF/WA, and in use currently, are really to distinguish XY DSD athletes and trans-identified male athletes from other male athletes for the purposes of deciding whether to allow DSD and TI males into the female category of sports competition.

Though WA's criteria now uses 2.5 nmol/L as the upper limit of natural T for both XY DSD and trans-identifed males seeking eligibility in the female category, for female athletes subject to WA rules, the upper limit for T has always been lower.

A female athlete whose WADA test results show a T level at/above 1.70 nmol/L will be flagged for further investigation because the normal reference range for T in female athletes that WA uses tops out at 1.68 nmol/L.

When a female athlete governed by WA and WADA rules tests at 1.70 or above, she'll have to take a pregancy test first thing. If it turns out pregnancy isn't why her T is above the upper end of the normal reference range for female athletes, she'll have to undergo further investigations to see if she is doping.

it's that simple: is she using the women's bathroom?

Do people call her a woman?

If that's the case, she should compete with women.

you can't have it both ways.

Way too muscular for Roger, but definitely some facial similarities.

Sports are about having fun and doing your best. Come in first, tenth, or hundredth and as long as you had fun and did your best it was a good day.

Daltrey was pretty buff during the late 60s/early 70s. Meaty.

Stop pretending that women sports actually matter

When is the last time that you went to see a women pro basketball game or women pro soccer game or women pro hockey game?

I bet that on planet earth, there is less than a dozen people who attended a game in all three of these pro women sports.

You are only allowed to pretend that you care if you attended a game in all three of these pro women sports and you can name three current players in each.

However people with gender dysphoria are rarely on top of their game psychologically. Sports may be a way to help them. Why make a fuss? Allow them to play.

Move on…

Is that a serious question? We women have very different anatomies from men from pelvic structure to shoulder width to body fat composition and distribution to chest to waist to hip ratio to breast to buttocks ratio and what not. Our smaller shoulders and arm lengths are a disadvantage in archery and shooting.

We have breasts that come in the way. Menstruating women have period cramps that bring days of the month down for us. Pregnant lactating mothers have breast pain because of unsqueezed milk buildup in their breasts. Sometimes these breasts accidentally ooze milk right while we are taking aim. Also imagine if you get your period right at the moment of shooting. These are problems male men like Caster Semenya don’t have.

Also Caster Semenya most likely fathered Semenya’s two children with his wife Violet Rasaboya. WA first went from a 10 nmol T limit to 5 nmol and now to 2.5 nmol along with the requirement of maintaining T levels below limit since the earlier of Tanner stage 2 of puberty or the age of 12. XY men like Semenya and Chand blah blah bellow bellow hollow. Semenya grew up playing with boys and brags and laughs demoniacally about it in interviews. Somehow all this has something to do with trans participation in shooting sports.

But in response to your original question about archery and shooting, we women have breasts that come in the way. Menstruating women have period cramps that bring days of the month down for us. Pregnant lactating mothers have breast pain because of unsqueezed milk buildup in their breasts. Sometimes these breasts accidentally ooze milk right while we are taking aim. Also imagine if you get your period right at the moment of shooting. These are problems male men like Caster Semenya don’t have.

Seb Coe has made a move in the right direction. I’m chuffed at the recent WA rules as the British might say.

lol! Well done!

textbook George ftw in the mile. 53 last lap moving from 7th to 1st

textbook George ftw in the mile. 53 last lap moving from 7th to 1st

oops thought i was in the Penn relays thread… twice