If a guy is very wealthy, should he hide this when he first starts dating a woman?

Average(?) Guy wrote:

Have read through the thread and am kind of chuckling/shaking my head so many people are supposedly scoffing at $120k/year... I live in middle America and make about $70k/year, and I have enough money to do basically whatever I want. I don't live a crazy lifestyle, but I eat out as much as I want, take one trip abroad each year, drive a decent car, and still put away between $1000 and $2000 each month towards my investments. I make more money than most of the women here my age, and the main ones who are making more than me are in the medical field... One I dated for awhile did make significantly more than me as she was a specialized nurse of some kind, but she also worked a lot of 12hr night shifts and weekends. To each their own, but that lifestyle sucks.

Even here, I wouldn't consider $120k/year "rich," but it would absolutely be enough for any sensible person to have basically anything they want and live extremely comfortably as long as they're not very foolish with their money. Especially if you're savvy with investing, earning that much and putting some away into a broad market index fund could easily lead to "earning" over $200k/year between income and investments in a pretty short period of time. That is enough that more doesn't even make any difference in my opinion (unless your life dream is to buy an island or something).

Typical letsrun.

800 dude wrote:

originaI prankster wrote:

Let’s look at living in Manhattan on 120k. Say you max out your 401k and that’s the only money you save every month. So you’re at 97.5k annually after 401k. Your take home after federal, state, FICA, and local taxes is about $5300 per month (deducted another $100 per month for health insurance premium). The average one bedroom is a bit over $4000, but say you’re okay with slumming it a bit and can get one for $3500. That leaves $1800/month for all your food, transportation, clothes, phone and utilities, health expenditures, and any travel or leisure activities. I would say that’s a pretty meager existence for an adult living in NYC.

I don't know, man. I don't see $1800/month after taxes, rent, and savings as all that meager, but everyone's standards for acceptability just grows with income. My first teaching job paid me 39k, and that was in Los Angeles about 15 years ago. Not as expensive as NY, but not cheap by any means. I had a one-bedroom, a Roth IRA, a car, and it never occurred to me that I was living a "meager" existence. I still ate out and took trips. I just had to keep a budget.

Now, if your point is that you won't be able to hang out sometimes with people who make way more than you because they'll want to do expensive things, that's true every time there's a mismatch. I make a lot more than 120k, but I have friends who go to five-star resorts in Polynesia, and I can't afford (or justify) joining them.

Anyway, when it comes down to actual numbers, I think $3500/month apartment in Manhattan would be a silly expenditure for someone making 120k. You can get a decent 1-bedroom for under 3k in Brooklyn, even in good neighborhoods. No doorman, but again, that's a luxury.

original prankster again wrote:

800 dude wrote:

I don't know, man. I don't see $1800/month after taxes, rent, and savings as all that meager, but everyone's standards for acceptability just grows with income. My first teaching job paid me 39k, and that was in Los Angeles about 15 years ago. Not as expensive as NY, but not cheap by any means. I had a one-bedroom, a Roth IRA, a car, and it never occurred to me that I was living a "meager" existence. I still ate out and took trips. I just had to keep a budget.

Now, if your point is that you won't be able to hang out sometimes with people who make way more than you because they'll want to do expensive things, that's true every time there's a mismatch. I make a lot more than 120k, but I have friends who go to five-star resorts in Polynesia, and I can't afford (or justify) joining them.

Anyway, when it comes down to actual numbers, I think $3500/month apartment in Manhattan would be a silly expenditure for someone making 120k. You can get a decent 1-bedroom for under 3k in Brooklyn, even in good neighborhoods. No doorman, but again, that's a luxury.

Sure you can get a decent place in Brooklyn or Queens (not Williamsburg or LIC, but some places) for $3k; it still makes most of Manhattan (south of 110th at least) very difficult to deal with for $120k if you have your own place.

I lived on less than $1800/month after rent (had a roommate) in Manhattan in the past, but with inflation it would probably be more like $2200 in today’s dollars - I was in my 20s and wasn’t saving anything, despite being quite parsimonious with my spending. It’s an expensive city, and if I’d stayed in NYC on that salary forever, I’d basically be relegated to always having a roommate and never saving any money my whole life. Most of us are able to deal with such incomes and living conditions early in our career when we’re young and it’s cool to have a roommate and we know our income will go up later. Not so much for someone in their 40s or 50s, that’s why I’m saying Manhattan (or even other boroughs of NYC) is pretty much unlivable on $120k. $70k in many cities or even $50k in some places goes farther, largely due to rent but stuff is just more expensive in general. If I got a job for $300k in NYC, I’d seriously consider commuting from NJ.

800 dude wrote:

originaI prankster wrote:

Let’s look at living in Manhattan on 120k. Say you max out your 401k and that’s the only money you save every month. So you’re at 97.5k annually after 401k. Your take home after federal, state, FICA, and local taxes is about $5300 per month (deducted another $100 per month for health insurance premium). The average one bedroom is a bit over $4000, but say you’re okay with slumming it a bit and can get one for $3500. That leaves $1800/month for all your food, transportation, clothes, phone and utilities, health expenditures, and any travel or leisure activities. I would say that’s a pretty meager existence for an adult living in NYC.

I don't know, man. I don't see $1800/month after taxes, rent, and savings as all that meager, but everyone's standards for acceptability just grows with income. My first teaching job paid me 39k, and that was in Los Angeles about 15 years ago. Not as expensive as NY, but not cheap by any means. I had a one-bedroom, a Roth IRA, a car, and it never occurred to me that I was living a "meager" existence. I still ate out and took trips. I just had to keep a budget.

Now, if your point is that you won't be able to hang out sometimes with people who make way more than you because they'll want to do expensive things, that's true every time there's a mismatch. I make a lot more than 120k, but I have friends who go to five-star resorts in Polynesia, and I can't afford (or justify) joining them.

Anyway, when it comes down to actual numbers, I think $3500/month apartment in Manhattan would be a silly expenditure for someone making 120k. You can get a decent 1-bedroom for under 3k in Brooklyn, even in good neighborhoods. No doorman, but again, that's a luxury.

Ridgemonter wrote:

Average(?) Guy wrote:

Have read through the thread and am kind of chuckling/shaking my head so many people are supposedly scoffing at $120k/year... I live in middle America and make about $70k/year, and I have enough money to do basically whatever I want. I don't live a crazy lifestyle, but I eat out as much as I want, take one trip abroad each year, drive a decent car, and still put away between $1000 and $2000 each month towards my investments. I make more money than most of the women here my age, and the main ones who are making more than me are in the medical field... One I dated for awhile did make significantly more than me as she was a specialized nurse of some kind, but she also worked a lot of 12hr night shifts and weekends. To each their own, but that lifestyle sucks.

Even here, I wouldn't consider $120k/year "rich," but it would absolutely be enough for any sensible person to have basically anything they want and live extremely comfortably as long as they're not very foolish with their money. Especially if you're savvy with investing, earning that much and putting some away into a broad market index fund could easily lead to "earning" over $200k/year between income and investments in a pretty short period of time. That is enough that more doesn't even make any difference in my opinion (unless your life dream is to buy an island or something).

Typical letsrun.

What is a typical home price where you live?

I live in a SoCal city. There are very few homes for less than 1 million. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood. Most homes go for over 2 million. Try affording that on 120k. With 2 incomes you can afford it. Barely.

It's all relative to where you live.

So, yes, 120k is good money in middle america, but it on the low side in most major metros, or desirable coastal areas. You are not poor, but you are not saving 1k a month.

Oh, and it takes a long time to bring in 80k in investment "income" - where we are talking dividends or interest payments. You will need several million in investments to generate that as income (i.e. not capital gains and selling principle).