Explain Like I'm 5: Why should I make my 800 guy do lots of long runs?

Not that this is what the thread is about, but they don't need long runs in the traditional sense of 15-20 milers. Before I trigger the Lydiard folks, just analyze most former world record holders in the 800m.

800m is as much endurance as it is a sprint.. 25 min is not a long run either. Have him do a 6-8 mile with some strides after once a week and you will see improvements

Because running at paces for the 800m do not train aerobic

Thanks, Perch. This is exactly right - I'd like to do right by this young man, who I believe I could help become a good 100/200-meter man if he focused on that (10.6/21.8, perhaps) but (1) he wants to run the 800, and (2) he probably has a lot more upside in that event.

I'm coming from the sprint world and want to know why the approach is so different in the half-mile re: over-overdistance; the 400m, for instance, has a significant aerobic component, but we've trained it successfully without going much over 450m in practice. I can obviously go pull a bunch of random 800 meter training programs from various sites, but I'd prefer a basic understand of why we're doing what we're doing, stated in simple terms.

I truly appreciate those who are being straightforward and helpful here.

OP, please please please read this thread that was linked.

Speaking as a guy who ran 49 in high school but never got under 1:55 for the 800 until college when I started running less race pace work and more aerobic work, that stuff is massively important.

I think the simplest explanation to the OP’s question is this: the 100, 200, and 400 are anaerobic events. The 800 requires a strong aerobic and anaerobic system to be successful (see the study linked earlier)

Training for the aerobic system and training for the anaerobic system is completely different. They are different energy systems.

Short intervals with some block work is good for developing the anaerobic system (I’m a distance guy with almost 0 knowledge of sprint training, so I’m only assuming here), compared to longer, slower intervals, tempo runs, with long, slow distance runs (20-60 minutes) on easy days being generally understood to be the best way to develop the aerobic system.

I’d recommend reading this thread. Lots of great 800 information

The use of the term "long run" for a 25 min run shows you come from the sprint science side.

Nothing wrong with that just a different place than most people here

Agree with this though

I second the sub 1:50 thread, HOWEVER, please note that it's largely geared towards the 800/1500 runner. So you'll see A LOT more volume there. But a lot of the principles are the same.

Why don’t you explain your opposition to 800m runners doing long runs like we were 5 year olds?

agreed

To make 800m feel very very short

Hey OP coach - this is the thread you definitely want to read.

Lots of good answers to your original question, but it's understandable if none of them fully make sense from your sprint-oriented background. A better, simpler way to think about it is this:

Which guy is faster over 800m?

A) 48.5 400m and 4:40 mile

B) 48.5 400m and 4:20 mile

C) 48.5 400m and 4 flat mile

"C" of course, right?

So here's what you wanna do - if you can spend the next X years developing this athlete, carefully and systematically over time, so that his 400m is 47.5 or 46.5 AND at the same time you are getting his mile capability closer to 4 flat, then you have a helluva 800 right there.

This is going to take top-end speed development, aerobic development, and everything in between.

IIRC, it's more or less all there in that sub-1:50 thread, so that's a great place to start.

I don't know if a 5 year old would understand this but: aerobic endurance.

If your guy is a true 400/800 guy, then "lots" of long runs wouldn't be good. For a 800/1500 guy, you would do 2 workouts, 3-4 easy runs and a long run with some top sprint work included on some of those easy run days. For 4/8 guy I think 2 or 3 short easy runs and MAYBE a long run (like 40-50 minutes at a jog) would be helpful at certain points in the season.

You also need to include some threshold work and vo2max work to increase that endurance as well.

OP - if my response above made sense for you, then this response clarifies that general concept more specifically and should get you in the right direction.

Look into the ends to middle principles. I think its the most effective form of training for 800m runners. get some easy mileage and tempos, work on top end speed. as the season goes on, change the emphasis in training paces closer and closer to 800m race pace. don't necessarily neglect any one aspect as others have said but change the emphasis over the course of the season. 20-30 miles a week is plenty.

Easy, longer runs provide the body a chance to adapt to the rigors of hard running. They increase mitochondria and strengthen the bones, muscles, and tendons.
Long runs, especially done early in the season will increase the probability of staying injury free until the end of the season.
Think of them as the foundation of a building where as speed is the roof. You might be able to hold up the roof for a while, but eventually, it will collapse.

Wow, you really have a stud here. what year is he? I think with the limited experience you said he has he has huge upswing and I applaud you for trying to seek help. no offence to sprint coaches, but they usually know dick about distance….probably vice Versa too. anyhow, I would agree that those 1ks at 2:42 are almost impossible. I’d be impressed if your kid could hit 3 of those at that pace with even ten mins rest.
the 600s are also too much. If you want him going faster than race pace o like workouts like:
2-3 x500/300. I’d have him run the 500 at 1500 pace which for him with limited distance experience is probably (to start) around 425-430, so call it 1:30 for 500. Give him one min rest and then hard 300 in 39-42. 5 mins rest, repeat.
I also love 300s on their own with 100 Jog. Say he can hit 3x3x300 in 41-42 with a little extra rest every 3. now he’s learning to rock 56 pace like it’s nothing. you get him there and he can run 152 pace in a race and then kick with that 400 speed you might have him sub 150.
I do believe strongly in the distance runs /recovery runs for the reasons many have said. he goes 30-35 mins easy, say 7-730 pace twice a week recovery with strides.
good luck to him. do let us know his year in school.