Explain Like I'm 5: Why should I make my 800 guy do lots of long runs?

Well, for five year olds, it's usually because: "I told you to" or "It's good for you."

Those workouts are totally impossible how could you possibly come up with that.

The race is still ~1/3 aerobic. If you never spend time sitting in aerobic training zones you’re gonna leave a lot of time out on the track.

What’s impossible about them?

3x600 @ 1:24 with 15min recovery is not impossible. 4-5x1000 coming through at 2:10 for 800 is not impossible.

Good question! Your 800m runner should do lots of long runs because it will help make them stronger and better at running for longer distances.

Imagine you're playing a game of tag with your friends. If you only practice running short distances, you might get really good at sprinting quickly, but you might get tired really quickly too. However, if you practice running longer distances, like around the whole park, you'll get better at pacing yourself and using your energy efficiently so you can keep running for longer without getting tired as quickly.

That's why your 800m runner should do lots of long runs. It will help them build up their endurance so they can run faster and longer without getting tired too quickly.

Right, but that’s what I’m getting at in this post: why wouldn’t training at or around the actual distance be optimal for addressing the specific aerobic demands of the 800? Why would runs much much longer be better at addressing the actual aerobic demands of the target distance, rather than the target distance itself?

For a five year old: Johnny and his friends all do it this way and are the best at it that do it and have ever done it. It might be easier for you to not do it that way but you t be as fast as you might otherwise be…in the 800.

It gets him to choose to get out of his comfort zone with good cardiovascular training effects and active recovery that also enhances ability to recover.

From the sprint world, for the 400m, Charlie used to say that someone new to the event can gain tenths from speed, or seconds from fitness. Now your guy is already at a decent level, but remember, NS ran 1:43 off 47, so there is a lot for him to gain on the 800 side.

Reading the title of your thread, I thought were talking about 10+ mile long runs, which would indeed be counterproductive for your athlete. On the other hand, an occasional 20-30 minute tempo effort will be helpful for building the strength to handle a higher workload in training. I think it does make sense to train this athlete more like a sprinter, so there's no need for more than a couple of these sessions, but they're still important, especially early on.

The interval workouts you suggested are way too hard if race pace refers to 800 pace here. Most 800 pace intervals should be in the 150m-300m range, maybe some 400s with plenty of rest on really tough days. Then you have the top-end speed stuff, a few longer intervals at mile/2 mile pace, and have him jog a few miles on easy days.

If you want his training to be absolutely as race-specific as possible, why not just have him run 1x800m at race pace every day?

Thanks. Good reply.
Why are the race-pace intervals too hard? He’s been able to do the 3x600 @1:21-1:25 before. Long recoveries between, FWIW.

Ahh, now this is what I like to see: CF content!

long time CF forum member/lurker. May he rest in power

I don't think those workouts are impossible, but I am confused by the fact that your examples don't make sense/add up.

A 1:52 800m runner is running 56 per 400 or 28 per 200 (not that you didn't know that, but I'm just stating for the purposes of illustration).

Your example workouts (and I'm quoting here) would be "3x600 slightly faster than race pace on some 'hard' days" or "5x1000 slightly slower than race pace on other hard days".

Lets start with 3x600 at slightly faster than race pace... Running at 28s/200, I'd cover 600m in 1:24. What's "slightly faster" about that? If your guy is doing that workout and hitting 1:24 when the intent is to run "slightly faster than race pace", he's not meeting the parameters of that workout. He's not actually going faster than race pace.

Now there's the 5x1000 at slightly slower than race pace... 2:10 is 18 sec slower than a 1:52, or 9s per 400 slower. I don't know about you but 9s slower per 400 is not "slightly slower than race pace". It is significantly slower. I, admittedly, balked at the notion of the 5x1000m at slightly slower than race pace, because I assumed that the delta between the paces would be closer/smaller than 9s per 400. That is a massive difference.

I'm mostly arguing the semantics of how you define "slightly" in your examples. One example isn't actually faster and the other is massively slower.

Good post.

The 3x600 @ 1:24 was early early season, as was the 5x1k. He had taken a few months off.

First, the definition of "long" is certainly debatable. Most coaches would agree that a young, talented 400/800 guy should not be doing a 12 miles jog at 9:00 pace. That would likely be counter productive. But, it seems we're discussing things like tempos and shorter runs, like 4-6 miles.

You can do race pace stuff, and near race pace stuff, but you can't do it ALL the time. So say you run hard on Monday on the track, the odds of your athlete being able to run hard again on Tuesday are slim, so what do you do? In general, the answer is, go for a jog and do some strides. A few miles, a few 100s, done. Your athlete gains some aerobic strength, they strengthen their bones and ligaments and all that, and hopefully they're ready for another hard session on Wednesday or Thursday.

Having the ability to handle a modest amount of mileage, say 20–35 miles per week for a young fast guy, will enable him to recover faster between reps and even workouts. Being able to handle 20 minutes of tempo work will also aid in that, PLUS, it'll give him a tiny bit more strength during the home stretch when your anaerobic system has thrown in the towel.

As for those workouts, 3x600 @ 1:24 and 5x1000 @ 2:42, that's HARD. He may be able to do the 3x600 with long recoveries, but at that point you're wasting a race effort. I'll eat my spikes if he can do 5x1000 @ 2:42. If he can, he's about to pop a 1:47 or something.

These aren't workouts, these are basically races. You need to do some volume so that you can handle the workouts. And you don't want to be doing long reps at maximum effort, it takes too much time to recover (days) and you'll dig yourself into a hole. You'll want some tempo runs and longer LT reps at the beginning of the season. Like 3 miles @ 5:30 pace for a 1:52 800 runner is reasonable. They could would benefit from a long run in the 6-8 mile range so that they can use oxygen more efficiently. 4 x 1k @ 3:07 with 1k rest. And then 20 15-20 second hill sprints as another workout during the week. Stuff like this early season. And then start introducing some quicker 200/300 reps at race pace once they've trained the base and can handle the volume of several fast 200/300 reps. Going straight to something like 6 x 300 meters @ mile -> 800 race pace is going to be tough on someone who skipped the base phase

3x600 at 800 race pace is insane

I'm gonna guess your athletes generally do really well in the first half of the season then crash and burn