This among other things would be nice to know. I agree with other posters, Shelby’s only relevance to the sport is the insider information she has on doping. If she doesn’t want to share it, no one should take any interest in how she’s staying “present”
Wouldn’t her becoming a snitch make you hate her even more? Being a liar and a cheat is bad enough.
I don't know who, if anyone, is giving her advice.
But PR wise, she needs to disappear. Don't do no podcasts, don't train with your team, no social media, don't have a relationship with the sport, just disappear. For 4 years. Innocent or guilty, just disappear.
Come back in 4 years and everyone has forgotten the situation. Staying in the public eye and continuing to bring up the situation is doing no good and giving more people more ammo.
Forgotten the situation? Come on.
If I was her, I probably wouldn’t want to comeback and have to deal with the “cheater” label.
Regardless she has that cheater label. No matter what happens she will always have it.
Like Bernard Lagat, even if she is cleared in the future, that label will always be there unfortunately at this point. There is no clearing her name.
So its best to just disappear for a few years instead of constantly reminding everyone who you are and what you did.
If I was her, I probably wouldn’t want to comeback and have to deal with the “cheater” label.
Regardless she has that cheater label. No matter what happens she will always have it.
Like Bernard Lagat, even if she is cleared in the future, that label will always be there unfortunately at this point. There is no clearing her name.
So its best to just disappear for a few years instead of constantly reminding everyone who you are and what you did.
No one will forget and no reminders are necessary. I’m not particularly anti-Houlihan, but I’m hoping she doesn’t make a comeback as any records she sets, or championships she wins, would be tainted.
Regardless she has that cheater label. No matter what happens she will always have it.
Like Bernard Lagat, even if she is cleared in the future, that label will always be there unfortunately at this point. There is no clearing her name.
So its best to just disappear for a few years instead of constantly reminding everyone who you are and what you did.
She is no Lagat. Lagat had a positive A test and a negative B test and no sanction. Houlihan had a positive A test and a positive B test and a 4 year ban for intentional doping, confirmed by CAS plus the Supreme Court in charge over there. There is literally no way clear the name of that cheater anymore. Good riddance. Better comparisons are with other banned dopers like Kiprop and Jeptoo and Gatlin etc etc.
If you are Shelby's mom, I find this last paragraph interesting. Are you suggesting that she might have ordered the Nor-DHEA off of Amazon? Because, that's doping lol.
Shelby's mom. Lol. What if I'm not -- is the last paragraph no longer interesting?
The suggestion that ""19‐nor DHEA" and "nor‐Andro" can be purchased from the internet, including from Amazon" comes from the professor with two hats "expert" and WADA Lab head Prof. Ayotte.
I'm suggesting that the WADA rules creates an imbalance against all accused athletes as there is no evidence nor argument required to any standard evaluating the likelihood of this alternative doping scenario proposed by the accuser/tester. And there was certainly no such finding from the CAS tribunal.
I think this is one of the things that "Chef Gordon Ramzi" means by "extremely weak".
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If you are Shelby's mom, I find this last paragraph interesting. Are you suggesting that she might have ordered the Nor-DHEA off of Amazon? Because, that's doping lol.
I'm suggesting that the WADA rules creates an imbalance against all accused athletes as there is no evidence nor argument required to any standard evaluating the likelihood of this alternative doping scenario proposed by the accuser/tester. And there was certainly no such finding from the CAS tribunal.
Because with strict liability you don't need to evaluate the likelihood of the alternative scenario to any standard.
It's would be like a judge refusing to throw out your speeding ticket in court but you complain "but they didn't even prove a theory to any standard evaluating why the speed camera caught me going 100 in a 70! The cop mentioned on the stand that he sees lots of people speeding because they're late for work, but he supplied no evidence to support his pet theory that *I myself* was actually late for work! Such a weak case!!"
If you are Shelby's mom, I find this last paragraph interesting. Are you suggesting that she might have ordered the Nor-DHEA off of Amazon? Because, that's doping lol.
Shelby's mom. Lol. What if I'm not -- is the last paragraph no longer interesting?
The suggestion that ""19‐nor DHEA" and "nor‐Andro" can be purchased from the internet, including from Amazon" comes from the professor with two hats "expert" and WADA Lab head Prof. Ayotte.
I'm suggesting that the WADA rules creates an imbalance against all accused athletes as there is no evidence nor argument required to any standard evaluating the likelihood of this alternative doping scenario proposed by the accuser/tester. And there was certainly no such finding from the CAS tribunal.
I think this is one of the things that "Chef Gordon Ramzi" means by "extremely weak".
You are on an island.
There is no one who seriously believes that Shelby is innocent. Not the fans, not her competitors, and not even the media minus the running effect kid.
Even the Brojos have acknowledged that when they talk to anyone at meets or in the running community, those people believe her to have been cheating.
you're convincing no one. Do you know how rare it is that a doper tests positive? Shelby didn't have a random positive test. That's like saying Ruth Jebet, who tested positive in 2017, had NOT been cheating in 2016 when she won Olympic gold.
Shelby's greed got the best of her, not her desire to be her best self. You can see it clearly in her wacky progression as a pro. She stole titles and chances to compete internationally from others. She even stole from running legend Jenny Simpson. She stole US records from future stars like Katelyn Tuohy. Imagine being a hard working generational talent who did everything right and knowing that chasing two major US records isn't tangible because Shelby ruined that opportunity for you?
We should compile a list of all the people rekrunner has been accused of being. I remember a few years ago people thought he was Paula Radcliffe.
I think it's an often used handle of Freud's PR farm to defend Nike athletes. Go back a year or two, and note the very different styles, from pretend-logical to IAAF-is-always-right to nowadays' walls of texts full of maybes/faith/illusion/"expert"/overly-agressive-AIU/IAAF-is-wrong followed by insulting Armstrong and Coevett. Common features remain that either the athlete didn't dope or it didn't help him/her or both.
No -- I'm none of the above. Not Shelby's mom. Not Paula's husband. Not a Brit. Not Freud's PR farm (sic). Not Nike shill. Not Salazar's son. People like to pretend I'm someone else, because it serves acts as a distraction -- oh look -- something shiny!
I don't think I've changed much since 2007, already writing walls of text back then on different topics, like performance models and oxygen and Daniels and Lydiard and Noakes, except I was probably more diplomatic before.
The common feature is that, when there are things that can be said with evidence and support, and things that can be said that are baseless, I will be sure to tell you which is which, no matter who says it, or their status. When there are logical flaws or contradictions, I feel a duty to point it out. I don't say the IAAF, or anyone else, is always right or always wrong because of who they are. The IAAF was right when they said things that could be supported and that they did support, by history and quotes and annotations and research. Finally even the WADA IC concurred, for the same reasons. The AIU (and the WADA Code) was wrong when it permitted findings (e.g. by presumption) that were not required to be backed with evidence and support, or worse, contrary to research.
When you talk about doping and whether it helps, there are many ways to show that, and many ways to fail to make that showing. Once again, I am there to say which is which.
I was asked if I was suggesting Shelby "might have ordered the Nor-DHEA off of Amazon" -- the answer is, it was not me suggesting it, but Prof. Ayotte.
I don't know who, if anyone, is giving her advice.
But PR wise, she needs to disappear. Don't do no podcasts, don't train with your team, no social media, don't have a relationship with the sport, just disappear. For 4 years. Innocent or guilty, just disappear.
Come back in 4 years and everyone has forgotten the situation. Staying in the public eye and continuing to bring up the situation is doing no good and giving more people more ammo.
Gatlin went away and came back -- I don't think people will easily forget the situation.
I'm sorry, but are we actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not?
Also, no one just runs Nandrolone on its own. You pair it with Test and/or other agents like EPO, SARMS, etc, so it's not like she's just guilty of taking 19-NA; she was under other stuff too because that's just how steroid cycling works.
Rekrunner's schizoposting never fails to amaze me. Just log off man.
I'm sorry, but are we actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not?
Also, no one just runs Nandrolone on its own. You pair it with Test and/or other agents like EPO, SARMS, etc, so it's not like she's just guilty of taking 19-NA; she was under other stuff too because that's just how steroid cycling works.
Rekrunner's schizoposting never fails to amaze me. Just log off man.
Child Please, rekrunnr hasn't even started debating semantics yet. Wait till he breaks out "she was never found guilty of intentionally doping".
I'm suggesting that the WADA rules creates an imbalance against all accused athletes as there is no evidence nor argument required to any standard evaluating the likelihood of this alternative doping scenario proposed by the accuser/tester. And there was certainly no such finding from the CAS tribunal.
Because with strict liability you don't need to evaluate the likelihood of the alternative scenario to any standard.
It's would be like a judge refusing to throw out your speeding ticket in court but you complain "but they didn't even prove a theory to any standard evaluating why the speed camera caught me going 100 in a 70! The cop mentioned on the stand that he sees lots of people speeding because they're late for work, but he supplied no evidence to support his pet theory that *I myself* was actually late for work! Such a weak case!!"
I am well aware of the role of "strict liability" in the scope of WADA, but that does not make it fair and balanced for truly innocent athletes. I am not subject to WADA and I can apply a more intelligent real world standard by asserting that any alleged alternative scenario is to date completely baseless and unproven. Notably the CAS did not find that she took nandrolone precursors. They found that Houlihan couldn't establish the source, which means the source of the nandrolone remains unestablished.
It is not like your speeding ticket analogy at all. Speed camera results would be physical evidence. It is more like making laws that say "Involuntary manslaughter" will be punished like "1st degree murder" unless the accused can prove it wasn't, and then the public will pretend it was 1st degree murder.
There is no one who seriously believes that Shelby is innocent. Not the fans, not her competitors, and not even the media minus the running effect kid.
Even the Brojos have acknowledged that when they talk to anyone at meets or in the running community, those people believe her to have been cheating.
you're convincing no one. Do you know how rare it is that a doper tests positive? Shelby didn't have a random positive test. That's like saying Ruth Jebet, who tested positive in 2017, had NOT been cheating in 2016 when she won Olympic gold.
Shelby's greed got the best of her, not her desire to be her best self. You can see it clearly in her wacky progression as a pro. She stole titles and chances to compete internationally from others. She even stole from running legend Jenny Simpson. She stole US records from future stars like Katelyn Tuohy. Imagine being a hard working generational talent who did everything right and knowing that chasing two major US records isn't tangible because Shelby ruined that opportunity for you?
I'm not all that interested in religion, and I am not insecurely looking to belong to a group of like-minded believers. It doesn't bother me what fans seriously believe, nor what the media says, nor if anyone is convinced by what is plainly available to them to confirm for themselves. I've long ago learned that people with strongly held beliefs will cling to them, and will resent being told that what they believe is just that -- what they believe. I'm also not that sure I would like to share an island with them.
I'm not convinced though that any of her competitors believe she intentionally doped with nandrolone. I'm completely unaware of any single athlete who is on record saying that she intentionally doped with exogenous nandrolone, or that any of her US records were doped. I think they remain mostly silent knowing it could have been them, and that this is a frightening wake-up call.
Do I know how rare that a doper tests positive? I don't know how that is relevant. But thanks to the AIU "experts" -- her accusers -- and two decades of scientific research on nandrolone from pork made available to the whole public, some conducted by Prof. Ayotte herself, I do know how possible it is to test positive for nandrolone by ingestion from pork in the USA with a different CIR, and how likely that would be in normal times in the US, and how that would have been more likely during the pandemic, for several reasons found in the CAS report, and several other reasons I was able to find that did not make it into the CAS report. With all that knowledge, it hardly matters to me what fans or media, or any competitors want to believe, as I cannot be sure to what extent they have informed themselves.
Let's remind ourselves of the only fact here: she was found with a small amount of nandrolone in her urine sample, from the CAS report, likely ingested (meaning most of it never entered her circulatory system), in the middle of December in the off-season. Please spare me all this alleged "she stole" anything from anyone. This is nothing like Ruth Jebet, who switched to Bahrain, and subsequently tested positive for EPO.
I'm sorry, but are we actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not?
Also, no one just runs Nandrolone on its own. You pair it with Test and/or other agents like EPO, SARMS, etc, so it's not like she's just guilty of taking 19-NA; she was under other stuff too because that's just how steroid cycling works.
Rekrunner's schizoposting never fails to amaze me. Just log off man.
I don't think anyone is "actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not".
Seems like a bizarre non-sequitor.
Who since the Sydney Olympics runs Nandrolone on purpose? A star athlete from Nike's remaining flagship team in the USA? That's credible.
Schizo-posting? That's new.
As I said above, I'm not all that interested in the religion of uninformed fans, but maybe the wisdom of the anonymous poster "nosurpriseshere" will be different.
I'm sorry, but are we actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not?
Also, no one just runs Nandrolone on its own. You pair it with Test and/or other agents like EPO, SARMS, etc, so it's not like she's just guilty of taking 19-NA; she was under other stuff too because that's just how steroid cycling works.
Rekrunner's schizoposting never fails to amaze me. Just log off man.
I don't think anyone is "actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not".
Seems like a bizarre non-sequitor.
Who since the Sydney Olympics runs Nandrolone on purpose?
Apparently Houlihan. But good point, maybe her other drugs was contaminated.
I'm sorry, but are we actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not?
Also, no one just runs Nandrolone on its own. You pair it with Test and/or other agents like EPO, SARMS, etc, so it's not like she's just guilty of taking 19-NA; she was under other stuff too because that's just how steroid cycling works.
Rekrunner's schizoposting never fails to amaze me. Just log off man.
I don't think anyone is "actually debating the semantics of whether or not an elite athlete that runs world class times is microdosing steroids or not".
Seems like a bizarre non-sequitor.
Who since the Sydney Olympics runs Nandrolone on purpose? A star athlete from Nike's remaining flagship team in the USA? That's credible.
Schizo-posting? That's new.
As I said above, I'm not all that interested in the religion of uninformed fans, but maybe the wisdom of the anonymous poster "nosurpriseshere" will be different.
all your debates remained trapped in June 12 2021.
When all we had was the press conference to go off of.
Since then we've learned so many things about little Shelby and about Nandrolone, how it can be taken, why it is taken, and how it can be concealed.
