Woody still defends Shelby?!?

If you know you aren't doping and have a good training situation going. Why would you leave that looks suspicious to me. On top of that shouldn't a training group support each other not run away at the first bad sign?

Yes, I am sure the very structured environment of BTC allowed their athletes to take various sketchy supplements from the dark web. Shelby either did this behind everyone’s back and then lied to everyone. Or BTC said take this supplement to help with recovery, but make sure to follow the dosing because too much of it is bad for you. Meaning if you take too much you test positive.

Because they do not look at it as doping or cheating. They look at it as “I’m recovering quicker.” In their minds it’s completely justifiable so, “if it isn’t wrong, I should defend it.”

Sudden progression after years in a strength talented pro group for the former 800 runner It isn't like that is suspiscious.

One part of the Woody thing I didn’t get is the “well she could’ve just taken a missed test” if she knew thing.

First of all if they know you are there and you refuse a test that is a ban for evading a test not a whereabouts failure (like Saruni got recently).

Second of all wasn’t she with Centro at the time sleeping over with both of them getting tested that day? I don’t think he/anyone else would’ve been cool with the let’s skip this one *wink, wink*. I suspect he’d raise some Qs or if he was doing the same illegal thing would’ve skipped the test too.

So, she had to feel somewhat obligated to take the test as the DCO/Centro would have her boxed in. I don’t think there was really an easy way out of it minus coercion with Centro. More likely she thought she was in the clear whether she knowingly or unknowingly had the Nandrolone in her system.

I never thought about the Centro aspect of the "well she could've missed the test" thing.

Never put that together. I figured a whereabouts failure could have been just that they didn't answer the door and then lied about where they were. But Centro being there--that does change things for her, and I can see that pushing her into taking the test.

The investigation and appeal process is played out and she is guilty. There's no way in innocent person is going to go through the whole process and still be found guilty. There is no defending her, she is guilty.

I am defending her.

I could be misinterpreting this, but I’m skeptical. As far as I know, Shelby and Centro were dating. If she’s sleeping over, I’m gonna assume they were pretty close, to say the least. Given those factors, if anything, Centro would’ve covered for her, rather than pressuring her to take the test. Not to mention, Centro’s probably dirty himself,

If there’s anything I have learned in life, and there are a few things, it’s that

(1) people lie.

(2) even morally upright people lie

(3) to reiterate, there’s not a single person on the planet who hasn’t lied, outside of possibly Mother Teresa

(4) at age 30, people stop being so naive about this

(5) even naive 30 year olds can only “not see” so much. By that I mean, if you’re on a pro team, and you see these runners every single day, you’re gonna know what kind of person they are, both their flaws and their virtues. I concede it’s possible to be on a pro team and never see any evidence of doping; it’s not like Woody is going through Shelby’s clothes (though Centro might be). That said, unless he’s on the spectrum, Woody will be able to pick up on what kind of person Shelby is, and he will (likely) be able to deduce whether or not she is at least the type of person who would dope, even if, hypothetically, she’s not.

(6) people cover for their friends (which isn’t always a good thing, despite what some Machiavellian moron with no sense of Justice said in a previous post).

(7) but sometimes people will also betray their friends to cover their own as$.

(8) why are we assuming that Woody and Shelby are actually friends though? Anyone who has ever been on a team knows that not everyone will get along.

(9) money talks. As someone said in a different thread, “if you’ve got a family and are barely making money as a pro runner, are you honestly telling me you won’t let Alberto run some androgel on you during a massage and just not ask questions?

(10) even if Woody is naive, unless he’s genuinely really stupid, he is aware that Schumacher has been associated with Alberto Salazar in the past; not to mention that Centro, who was literally coached by Alberto, is also on the team. There’s only so much amnesia about ones coaches and teammates a person can have.

(11) on a separate note, does it bother anyone else that few if any pro runners are coming out denouncing Shelby? I remember there was that open letter with those signatures (Molly Seidel, Alli Buchalski, and I think Allie Ostrander were among them) on it that supported bans and clean sports, but none of the signers, to my knowledge, publicly came about and said “this is nonsense: Shelby is coping.”

(12) also with regards to the whole “woody is just being classy” debate…..guys….come on. You can be classy and call people out for cheating. In fact, I’d argue that covering up for dopers, even if they are your friends, is itself not classy.

(12) if you’re friends with dopers and you know it, you ain’t classy

(13) to be fair, I’ve really only talked to 3 pros about this, but at least among them, the consensus is that Shelby definitely doped and any denial of it is absurd…..but they’re scared to say it out loud cus they don’t want to get flamed by people, or lose funding, lose support, get on Schumacher’s bad side in case they wanna run for him in the future, worried about his/Nike’s power, etc

So what he defends her! That's his friend smh. Last time I checked this is supposed to be a democracy

The big issue was the press conference. Go back and watch it. The coaches had far more information than the general public and I think they came across very badly. I like cheering for BTC runners and won’t speculate about any of them. However, they are associated not only with the teammate’s ban but also the statements and conduct of team leadership since then. There’s no getting away from that.

Me either

I think it should bother you to the point of rethinking your conclusions. It's almost as if pro-runners know what real doping, and railroading, looks like, while outsider fans are easily persuaded, especially when they want to presume the worst.

There is still a widespread perception that a strong case for intentional doping with synthetic nandrolone was made or proven to any standard, rather than presumption and speculation. In this case, intention was a presumption unable to be rebutted with one month notice after the fact, and synthetic nandrolone was unproven speculation coming from one party in the dispute.

If you want to say she broke the rules, because mere presence is already a violation, regardless of source and circumstance, and since 2015, unexplained presence is presumed intentional, that is one thing. In Shelby's case we cannot say more, as the likely source was not identified.

I also think that the behavior and Burrito story made the case worse. They were obviously hiding something and coming up with a ridiculously implausible story, at the same time having apparently been reasonably confident to avert a ban (therefore the long disappearance of S.H. before). Of course, one could think of extremely unfortuntate coincidences but the truth must have been worth than the Burrito nonsense, so they had something to hide.

It does not help that if followed one of the most explosive improvements of a runner who already had been professional for several years. Also the combination of improving within one season both around 30 sec. in the 5000m AND suddenly showing a deadly kick in the 1500m beating runners like Muir or Hassan who had been two ranks above only one season earlier (watch Shelby in WC London 2017 or the Berlin ISTAF 2017 to see her before the sudden improvement).

To your point though, if Centro is clean or plainly just unaware of Shelby’s doping, he has to be coerced. Not to mention the DCO assuredly would be like “Is Shelby there?” Then he is now officially tampering with the process and subject to a multi-year ban if he lies. There was no simply dodging this test with Centro involved unless he was willing to risk the ban and had knowledge of her doping/why she needed to skip the test.

The people that defended her, her teammates and friends, at least thought they trusted her. They mentally put themselves in their perception of her shoes. Her teammates expect that they would test clean and if they didn't, they would have no explanation for it. What would they do then? That's the source of all the initial defenses. Shelby testing positive at least cracked open that door that its possible to unknowingly test positive and there might be nothing you can do about it and it ruins your career and reputation. It's scary.

The facts are though that none of us really know how Shelby got the drugs in her system because she hasn't told us a believable story so she was suspended.

I would believe what he said over what several message board people say anonymously

These two things obviously aren't mutually exclusive in Woody's case. If anything, supporting his friend is the pathway more likely to let Woody keep his job (with Bowerman and Nike) without impediment. Believe it or not, opinions about athletes on Letsrun aren't impediments to their jobs.