Should records at BUs track not count?

geoffreyburns.com

It pays be to be compliant: the physics of indoor track and “optimal” surfaces — GB

Geoff Burns

45 years ago, a young lad hailing from a southern suburb of Dublin ripped around the interior of Madison Square Garden 11 times. By doing so faster than six other gentlemen making the same prestigious rounds, he was crowned c...

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Do you all realize that BU has been hosting meets on this track for 15-years? This isn't a new track, it's just the latest in the line of tracks that everyone goes to. For 10 of those years, nobody of note ran there, once everyone started showing up, and world class rabbits did the pacing, the times started getting super fast. Go back 5-years and name the meets that had Olympic finalists serving as the rabbits. Once teams started bringing there own, and everyone showed up at the same place, the mythical BU track was suddenly born.

It isn't the track!!!

It's cyclical everyone. Every 5-years a new track becomes the place to be and that's where everyone goes. 25-years ago, it was the Butler meet. 20-years ago it was Iowa State. 15-years ago it was in Arkansas. 10-years ago it was in Washington. 5-years ago it became BU.

people who run fast at boston, run fast elsewhere,

Fouad Messoudi ran 7:44 for 3k at BU in December, and just ran 3:54 in Arkansas

Grant ran 12:53 at BU then ran 26:33 outdoors on a high school track,

It’s a fast track, but i think it has more to do with the competition there.

BU, like Monaco, also gets the psychological effect of thinking that it is a faster track. They go there thinking they will run fast--and the best runners go there for that same reason--and so everything comes together. Who is to say that the track itself actually plays that much of a role? Fisher ran 26:33 and then later 12:46 last year, despite the 'magic' of BU getting him to 12:53.6.

You realize that to get the "bounce" you need to put more in. Energy isn't coming from nowhere

What a dumb take, since there actually is rules about super shoes, but not tracks. Your comment is pointless.

have you heard about Nuguse and Kincaid?

ever wonder if she could have run faster at BU. or are you so blinded by your own argument you wont even consider that?

they ran on a 309m indoor track smart guy. those records wont count either.

When Boston University renovated their indoor facilities in 2002, former BU coaches Pete Schuder and Bruce Lehane seized the opportunity to implement the features of the fast tracks they had known so well from the previous decades. They worked with the architects to design the plywood structure with a steep 18°, asymmetrical banking to facilitate faster racing. They even managed to pull Floyd Highfill out of retirement to help consult on the project. It’s been repaired and resurfaced over the years, but it maintains the distinct plywood substructure that provides an ideal surface to elevate distance running performance. The staggering number of records that are continually cranked out there year after year is a testament to the intuition and ingenuity to pursue a sort of ideality. Despite the demonstrable effect that’s been supported by clever science and decades of performance data, it is one of the last of its kind.

Definitely fair question. I would expect that an extra bouncy track will produce significantly faster times no doubt we have data. I think we should eliminate indoor WR’s

What is funny is how everyone is wetting their knickers over "super spikes" when a track like BU is an infinitely greater advantage to performance than 12mm of super critical pebax foam.

For the record I don't have a problem with performances run there - I just think it's funny we only really talk about it now when that track has had insane advantages ever since it was built.

ps. how good is this Chiefs-Bengals game

Is this the same track that NBIN will be run on?

it's the asymetric banks. steeper at beginning with a longer downhill fade. requires ~4 steps on the rise and gives you ~8 on the down hill. Plus has wood frame vs concrete/steel to create bounce.

Asymmetrical banks as you describe makes sense. Is it true?

I always thought Arkansas track was very fast based on highly competitive meets that produce record times. Seems as though their turns are wider too. The meet announcer occasionally states that its the fastest i door track in the world as well.

You are landing whether you are on the pavement or that track. We call that energy gravity. Google that and get back to us.

If the track and the shoes comply with the current rules they should count.

This argument is boring. Surfaces and shoes have been evolving since the beginning of the sport.

Prior to our old BU Armory track being torn down, there was always talk about the track being short, because times there were faster than most places. In fact, Joe Piane at Notre Dame was able to get his 300m track to be "graded" at the same index as the BU track (if I remember correctly). He felt our track was as fast or faster than his 300m flat track.
When we were one of the few banked 200m tracks in the country, we had entries from all over the country, including Oregon, Colorado, Florida, Michigan, etc.
When the new facility was built, there were many more 200m banked tracks competing for the top athletes, including the Armory, Penn State, Washington State and eventually Arkansas.
In the early years of our new facility, we actually had a decline in teams coming in with the Terrier Classic suffering the most downturn, as other facilities had top competition on the same weekend. The Valentine Invitational became mostly an outlet for D2 and D3 teams to get final qualifying marks prior to Nationals. So for a few years after the new build, we actually had slower performances, despite our thinking we had built a fast track with a true "bounce".
That all changed when Rupp came to the facility and ran his mile time. Other teams and coaches saw what could be done at the track. We had built a top notch track and they came (an adaptation of the Field of Dreams line).
In the last few years coaches figured that it might be a good idea for their 3k and 5k runners, coming off XC could come into BU and get an early qualifying time.
My point being that, yes, the track is fast, but it is fast because fast people run here against each other and there is now the same hype of good marks that used to exist when we were the only show in town at the old Armory.