Would high school Jim Ryun even be noticed on Newbury Park's team today?

Maybe you don't need psychiatric treatment but it's really bizarre to argue that a guy who was unbeaten in his events for three seasons, set three world records in those seasons, and still managed an Olympic silver medal in a race where he had not been healthy for most of his preparation and was at an altitude that gave an advantage to a couple of his competitors, was in the wrong event. It's about as bizarre to claim that he was in that event to win gold medals for a particular group of people. You don't think maybe he was trying to win it for himself, his family, his coach? And finally, we're talking about athletic competition here. It's not math class.

Thanks to Malmo and HRE for a couple well informed and insightful posts in this thread.

Simply put, there has never been an American high school mid distance or distance athlete like Jim Ryun. Period. He was truly a freak, both in terms of natural talent, as well as commitment and work ethic. Everyone else is competing for a historical second place.

Those early all- weather tracks were largely blacktop. They were as hard as granite. I ran on a clay track that was very comfortable, but slowish.

What exactly makes a cinder track "great" as opposed to a cinder track that's not great?

Some cider tracks are hard and firm -- needing little grooming. Most were like sand traps -- Ryuns KS state meet sub-4. Most were like loose black cinders-- see photo's of the 1964 Olympics.

So a "hard and firm" cinder track is basically just hard dirt?

Mostly it's a matter of how well maintained the track was. A cinder track that's dry and has been rolled so that the cinders are firm is usually a much better track than one that hasn't been maintained, where there are ruts, where there are big chunks of cinders that can stick in your spikes. A dry cinder track was always better than a wet one. There was more drag on your spikes on a wet track and the cinders would get caught in the spikes which made your shoes heavier. As a meet went on a great cinder track could become mediocre or even bad because people's spikes cut it and dug into it so it became less firm as the meet went on. when Ron Clarke ran his 10,000 world record in Oslo in 1965 he ran most of the race in the second lane because the inside lane was so loose and cut up from earlier races.

Well, considering he broke the 1500 WR just out of HS, I'd imagine a "2022 Jim Ryun" would be running somewhere in the 3:45-47 range as a senior for the 1600.

So yeah, he'd be the headliner.

Nope. The top high school US mile talent of all time wouldn't make the travel team for Newbury Park, obviously. Don't bother to even consider the shoe, clothing, and track technology, training enhancements, or general overall modern lifestyle improvements of today. It doesn't matter. Nope. The top high school US mile talent of all time wouldn't even travel with the Newbury Park team.

Give HS Ryun the same "supplements," same track, same shoes, same training as NP, and he goes 1:44, 3:48, 8:25.

Did I miss something? How many on Newbury team have run 3:55 in crappy shoes?

Or beat an Olympic Gold Medalist in the race ?!? (Peter Snell)

Most of you are forgetting that the point of this thread was how well Jim Ryun would do in a 3 mile cross country race, NOT a 1 mile race on a track.

Cross country during Jim's time was only 2 miles. Speculating on his 5k prowess has to be based only on those shorter distances, since that's all the data out there. For what it's worth, Ryun did break the state record in XC his senior year, apparently held by some dude named Billy Mills.

AND... Ryun missed part of high school XC season because of this thing called the Tokyo Olympics.

Well my sense is that someone like Jim Ryun would do quite well in a 3 mile cross country race. This guy was really on a whole different level than any high school miler so it stands to reason that even if his gifts did not translate entirely to the 3 mile, he was so superior at the mile that he would still be in the mix at 3 miles. Nobody knows for sure whether he would be Newbury’s top cross country runner but the cream often rises to the top and my sense is that if high school Jim Ryun, Gerry Lindgren and Alan Webb were on Newbury’s current team, it wouldn’t be those 3 who were in danger of not making the top 5 on the cross country team.

Most teams send 7 runners so yeah, I would take 3:55 Ryun over NP's 6th or 7th guys.

You really have no clue as to how great Ryun was.

Colin Sahlman beat indoor 3k silver medalist in a Mile last month.