Kobbs Hessler wrote:
Katir is the most obvious doper in elite running today.
Anything that looks too good to be true probably is. In an era of doping you can't be the best without it, because the best doped will beat the best clean.
Kobbs Hessler wrote:
Katir is the most obvious doper in elite running today.
Anything that looks too good to be true probably is. In an era of doping you can't be the best without it, because the best doped will beat the best clean.
maaaaaybe wrote:
Well, there is|was actually quite a lot of suspicion around him among elite Spanish athletes, including posts in Instagram and so on.
In fact, after he flicked his 3.28 (or after his win in the 5kk in the Diamond League, I dont remember) he said to the camera "no oigo, no oigo nada' which can be interpreted as "I don listen to the whispers\doubters/ whatever".
On the other hand I agree with you. He is kind and very cheerful, I like him and his (really bad in my view heheh) poetry makes him still more likeable. And as far as I know, yes, no strange connections and very public about his whereabouts. But I am an agnostic regarding if a progression like that is naturally achievable, I want to believe though...
Regards
+1 Lol - But I am an agnostic regarding - I have never seen anyone use the term « agnostic » in that type of setting so that is an interesting use of language. Are you Spanish or an Anglo? Of course you may elect not to answer this question for reasons of privacy.
Montjuic wrote:
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
But we're not talking potential. On paper he was a 1:51 guy.
Question: Did he win or lose that 1:51 race?
Let's play the game and call him a 1:48 potential.
Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace?
Sliced any which way, his improvement is/was rather unusual.
“Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace? ”
Would you kindly expand on this? What does this mean? Is this a training session that you’re referring to?
Katir apparently ran a couple of 1k repeats early this year. They'd both average 1:50.4 through 800m.
Here's the copy/paste of that post from the infamous Katir is the most prolific doper of all time thread. I was wrong. It wasn't 1:49 pace, it was 1:50 pace.
__________
"Forget the doping allegations for a moment. Anyone have any insights on his training?
2019: Mohamed Katir averages two laps in 55.9/lap, 3.75 laps in 57.92/pace.
2020: 58.44 pace over 2.5 laps and 57.76/lap pace for 3.75 laps, with the 1k clearly not his event.
2021i: 60.7 pace for 3k
2021: Two repeat 1ks in 55.2 pace (probably running an 800m PR in one if not both of the two if run even-pace), 3.75 laps at 55.66 pace, and 12.5 laps at 61.6 pace?
What's he doing in training that he can hold his old 800m best for nearly double the distance?"
__________
These long distances win play for him...
Aouita smashed Morocco's 3000m record in 1977 (without knowing) while preparing a Football season.
Asbel Kiprop was World Champion of Cross Country U20.
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
Montjuic wrote:
“Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace? ”
Would you kindly expand on this? What does this mean? Is this a training session that you’re referring to?
Katir apparently ran a couple of 1k repeats early this year. They'd both average 1:50.4 through 800m.
Here's the copy/paste of that post from the infamous Katir is the most prolific doper of all time thread. I was wrong. It wasn't 1:49 pace, it was 1:50 pace.
__________
"Forget the doping allegations for a moment. Anyone have any insights on his training?
2019: Mohamed Katir averages two laps in 55.9/lap, 3.75 laps in 57.92/pace.
2020: 58.44 pace over 2.5 laps and 57.76/lap pace for 3.75 laps, with the 1k clearly not his event.
2021i: 60.7 pace for 3k
2021: Two repeat 1ks in 55.2 pace (probably running an 800m PR in one if not both of the two if run even-pace), 3.75 laps at 55.66 pace, and 12.5 laps at 61.6 pace?
What's he doing in training that he can hold his old 800m best for nearly double the distance?"
__________
Thank you for the clarification.
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
Montjuic wrote:
“Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace? ”
Would you kindly expand on this? What does this mean? Is this a training session that you’re referring to?
Katir apparently ran a couple of 1k repeats early this year. They'd both average 1:50.4 through 800m.
Here's the copy/paste of that post from the infamous Katir is the most prolific doper of all time thread. I was wrong. It wasn't 1:49 pace, it was 1:50 pace.
__________
"Forget the doping allegations for a moment. Anyone have any insights on his training?
2019: Mohamed Katir averages two laps in 55.9/lap, 3.75 laps in 57.92/pace.
2020: 58.44 pace over 2.5 laps and 57.76/lap pace for 3.75 laps, with the 1k clearly not his event.
2021i: 60.7 pace for 3k
2021: Two repeat 1ks in 55.2 pace (probably running an 800m PR in one if not both of the two if run even-pace), 3.75 laps at 55.66 pace, and 12.5 laps at 61.6 pace?
What's he doing in training that he can hold his old 800m best for nearly double the distance?"
__________
If you follow him on Instagram you’ll get some indications about his training.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CYOeBI-N1Cd/?utm_medium=copy_linkGhost1 wrote:
maaaaaybe wrote:
Well, there is|was actually quite a lot of suspicion around him among elite Spanish athletes, including posts in Instagram and so on.
In fact, after he flicked his 3.28 (or after his win in the 5kk in the Diamond League, I dont remember) he said to the camera "no oigo, no oigo nada' which can be interpreted as "I don listen to the whispers\doubters/ whatever".
On the other hand I agree with you. He is kind and very cheerful, I like him and his (really bad in my view heheh) poetry makes him still more likeable. And as far as I know, yes, no strange connections and very public about his whereabouts. But I am an agnostic regarding if a progression like that is naturally achievable, I want to believe though...
Regards
+1 Lol - But I am an agnostic regarding - I have never seen anyone use the term « agnostic » in that type of setting so that is an interesting use of language. Are you Spanish or an Anglo? Of course you may elect not to answer this question for reasons of privacy.
"Agnostic" in this context is an example of a sophisticated use of English. You are apparently not sophisticated.
The supplements he, Lewandoski and others take and promote are below.
Is using these supplements morally right?
This is the type of grey area stuff Salazar was apparently crazy to find and use. Wouldn't be surprised if it was something similar vain that got contaminated that got Shelby busted.
https://www.s-c-nutrition.com/product/blood-booster-active15-280g-increase-epo-red-blood-cells/
grey area wrote:
The supplements he, Lewandoski and others take and promote are below.
Is using these supplements morally right?
This is the type of grey area stuff Salazar was apparently crazy to find and use. Wouldn't be surprised if it was something similar vain that got contaminated that got Shelby busted.
https://www.s-c-nutrition.com/product/blood-booster-active15-280g-increase-epo-red-blood-cells/
"Contaminated supplements" - is that a euphemism for doping?
No problem, I'm from Spain : )
This is Katir 3000m progression by age:
17 y.o. ; 8:48
18 y.o. : 8:31
19 y.o. : 8:07
20 y.o. : 7:53
21y.o. : 7:48
22 y.o: 7:35
23y.o. : 7:27
It looks like he had steady large improvements throughout the years. Not that 8:48 is slow for a 17 y.o., but it’s really not fast either. Same for 8:31 as an 18 y.o. Nice progression, but no scholarship offers for sure. 8:07 as a 19 y.o. starts to be interesting however (24s improvement). It seems that this was his first real breakthrough year (no Cole Hocker, but.,.). Another big year as a 20 y.o. (14s improvement). Now he would be going to NCAAs…. As a 21 y.o. He would be winning or be in the medals at NCAA (well not really since he does not do well in championships). The following year (22 y.o.) he would be breaking NCAA records (another 13s improvement)
He obviously did not start training when he was 8 y.o. like Jakob or Cole.
He also did not have a Jim Ryun improvement curve either
maaaaaybe... wrote:
No problem, I'm from Spain : )
Bienvenido aquí y publique más información sobre los corredores españoles de élite que siempre nos interesan.
Gracias
Who is Yakob?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Ghost1 wrote:
+1 Lol - But I am an agnostic regarding - I have never seen anyone use the term « agnostic » in that type of setting so that is an interesting use of language. Are you Spanish or an Anglo? Of course you may elect not to answer this question for reasons of privacy.
"Agnostic" in this context is an example of a sophisticated use of English. You are apparently not sophisticated.
And pointing on this is important for you exactly why?
Indoor world records are a mechanically-assisted joke, all in the track design. 3000m is arguably faster indoors than out, if it were ran as often.
Katir is great but there's a huge red flag in that he never looks relaxed. Always gritting his teeth making a huge effort, running as fast as he can. Peak is 1 second better max at 1500.
te5n1k wrote:
crazy to see the katir hype on these boards. it was somewhat justified going into the olympics, but he performed terribly when it mattered most (there are a multitude of possibilities for this). until he actually wins something i doubt his major competitors are too concerned.
If anything, Katir's radically underhyped. He dropped a minute in the 5 to 12:50, 3 seconds under Lagat's American record, and 8 seconds in the 1500m, to a time very close to Farah's old European record. Underperformance in championships is very common for the first year at top level. Don't forget how hot it was at the Olympics. But the thing is that he doesn't have to get that much better. One second faster at 1500m, for instance, and he'd be faster than anyone has gone since Kiprop's doped up 3:26.69.
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
2021 saw him break a few national records, but not be crowned national champion. He ran a fast 5000, but couldn't medal.
Until he can win medals, he'll be the Asafa Powell of middle distance running.
I have the deep feeling that Katir psychologically fell to loose scenario in Tokyo. He didn't had the "public fuel" to push him out-pass his capacities.
Remember his declaration before Tokyo: "my objective is to reach the final".
te5n1k wrote:
crazy to see the katir hype on these boards. it was somewhat justified going into the olympics, but he performed terribly when it mattered most (there are a multitude of possibilities for this). until he actually wins something i doubt his major competitors are too concerned.
He doesn't need to perform when it matters to set records.
Do you remember the big thread in this forum and people swearing to "get his head" to "justice" as soon as possible?
All this play in the head of a runner.
Nearly all the leading Spanish runners born in Morocco are from poor backgrounds and one way or another don't have the ideal training set up when young. I don't know MK's background but it seems likely that until he joined a more professional set up which enabled major advances he was relatively under-prepped. The repeated references to MKs 13.50 5000 best a year before the big leap are, imo, just silly when compared to his 3000 level in that year. That said, Moroccan distance runners who take Spanish citizenship have almost as s(&^ty a doping record as Moroccan distance runners who stay south of the Andalusian ports.