Ross Tucker thoughts RE Shelby Houlihan

Uhhh wrote:

rojo wrote:We are about to publish a great piece from Jonathan Gault. One reason why people are more passionate about Houlihan is many people on here know here, or know Jerry S. If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

Does Jerry Schumacher's statement that he's never heard of nandrolene raise any doubts for you about his character?

I'd have thought any long term T&F coaches would have heard of it given it was the drug that ended Linford Christie's career in the late 1990s.

This is what bothers me more than anything in the story so far. Until we get more information and input (e.g., USADA and some physiologists not directly involved) I think there is some room for doubt on the accuracy of the test, the lab, and on the amount detected but it is the athlete's responsibility to know something about the substances out there--especially a high level

professional. And more so for a coach, at high school level or above.

Strikes me as disingenuous.

NANDROLONE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO INGEST VIA FOOD. IT IS NOT ON THE LOW-TEST POSITIVE LIST LIKE ZERANOL OR CLENBUTEROL. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

rojo wrote:

We are about to publish a great piece from Jonathan Gault. One reason why people are more passionate about Houlihan is many people on here know here, or know Jerry S. If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

Like come on. It's common sense.. If a kid I caoched at Cornell was accused of a crime, there are certain people I'd feel instantly, "No way." There would be others, I'd think, "Maybe." Would my gut instant reaction always be right? Hell no. But that's why we do it.

Yet another bit of nonsense from one of the site owners. You are just indicating that you are indeed not objective. It is one thing to have sympathy for someone you know, but another to ignore objective facts.

Come on mate, at least try to pretend that you guys are journalists, or are running an objective forum.

Do you have a job? Do you really believe all of your colleagues are that good at their job? Really?

Professional scientists are not infallible. They make wildly huge mistakes all the time.

CinqueMinute wrote:

NANDROLONE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO INGEST VIA FOOD. IT IS NOT ON THE LOW-TEST POSITIVE LIST LIKE ZERANOL OR CLENBUTEROL.

No.

Acccording to the WADA memo on the analysis and reporting of the metabolites of nandrolone, eating meat from noncastrated male pigs is one of the ways a non-doper can return a positive test result.

This document is online. You can find it easily.

Poster is correct. Shelby did not ingest pork.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

CinqueMinute wrote:

NANDROLONE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO INGEST VIA FOOD. IT IS NOT ON THE LOW-TEST POSITIVE LIST LIKE ZERANOL OR CLENBUTEROL.

No.

Acccording to the WADA memo on the analysis and reporting of the metabolites of nandrolone, eating meat from noncastrated male pigs is one of the ways a non-doper can return a positive test result.

This document is online. You can find it easily.

The poster has no idea what Shelby did or did not eat.

fnhriel wrote:

Poster is correct. Shelby did not ingest pork.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

No.

Acccording to the WADA memo on the analysis and reporting of the metabolites of nandrolone, eating meat from noncastrated male pigs is one of the ways a non-doper can return a positive test result.

This document is online. You can find it easily.

Scientist32324 wrote:

The poster has no idea what Shelby did or did not eat.

fnhriel wrote:

Poster is correct. Shelby did not ingest pork.

She ingested a nandrolone pill.

dr. jones wrote:

Scientist32324 wrote:

The poster has no idea what Shelby did or did not eat.

She ingested a nandrolone pill.

That would amusing if true but, probably unlikely.

rojo wrote:

Shelgone wrote:

Stop the narrative that ingesting a normal amount of food will trigger a positive test. This is a lie. There is an allowed limit for a reason and Shelby was WAY over. The testing agency is a professional organization whos job it is to catch cheaters. It is quite unfortunate that Shelby was using but the facts are facts. No one on this board would believe her if she was from another country or from NOP.

Your statement makes no sense. We haven't even seen the decision so you are writing with facts you don't have.

this is incorrect.

We have same the decision AND the appeal.

They banned her 4 years after reviewing her story for 5 months.

What facts are you still waiting on?

Uhhh wrote:

rojo wrote:We are about to publish a great piece from Jonathan Gault. One reason why people are more passionate about Houlihan is many people on here know here, or know Jerry S. If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

Does Jerry Schumacher's statement that he's never heard of nandrolene raise any doubts for you about his character?

I'd have thought any long term T&F coaches would have heard of it given it was the drug that ended Linford Christie's career in the late 1990s.

+1

Never heard about Nandrolone was obviously a lie and says a lot about his character.

She also lied about why she didn’t run in Portland.

Now we know she is willing to lie to hide from her situation we are forced to ask. What else is she willing to lie about.

Scientist32324 wrote:

The poster has no idea what Shelby did or did not eat.

fnhriel wrote:

Poster is correct. Shelby did not ingest pork.

NPR quotes an expert who says it's rare to have non-castrated pigs in the U.S.

Experts who spoke with NPR say a link is possible, but is not so clear cut.

Dr. Keeve Nachman, an associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, says the steroid would be unlikely to be found in pork.

"Nandrolone is not approved for use in any food animal," said Nachman, noting that it's illegal to use any steroid hormones in pig production. "We use them in cattle and sheep, and that's it."

"The only way it would be there is if it occurred naturally," he said. "And I don't know that that's the case."

While Nachman is not an expert on anabolic steroids, he is an authority on the drugs that are used in animal production, especially for pork, chicken and other meats.

Dr. Heather Fowler, who leads the National Pork Board's division of producer and public health, says that while uncastrated boars have been linked to nandrolone test results in the past, the meat from those animals makes up only a sliver of the market.

"Some research suggests the naturally occurring hormones in the meat and organs from intact male pigs (boars) can impact nandrolone test results," Fowler said, "but the vast majority of the pork consumed in the U.S. does not come from boars."

Referring to that same research, Nachman noted that most male piglets raised in the U.S. are barrows — castrated males.

"Non-castrated pigs are less appealing in taste," he said.

After a day of this, the consensus from people with a scientific background is that they aren't buying what Shelby is selling. Ross Tucker and Geoff Burns are pretty clear on this. Maybe some journalists should talk to experts before rushing to buy the BTC line - I will admit, BTC has down a hell of a PR job here, presenting half-truths and obsfuscations as facts, outraged video statements from high profile people, coordinated sincere social media posts, following the Sharapova manual of getting ahead of the official announcement with your version of events (the whole agenda setting approach). Nice moves by the Nike PR team

I don't trust either Ross Tucker or Geoff Burns. Ask them an awkward question and you won't get a reply.

Even Travis Tygart says that contaminated meat is a problem.

Why are you ignoring this? Disingenuous much?

explain wrote:

I don't trust either Ross Tucker or Geoff Burns. Ask them an awkward question and you won't get a reply.

Even Travis Tygart says that contaminated meat is a problem.

Why are you ignoring this? Disingenuous much?

Of course it is a problem, but not at the level she was tested.

The tainted meat and 'expert evidence' has no relevance at that level, so stop the smokescreen.

...and a) why should they reply directly to you, b) what the hack does 'much' mean after disingenuous? Learn English please.

I am Sam wrote:

explain wrote:

I don't trust either Ross Tucker or Geoff Burns. Ask them an awkward question and you won't get a reply.

Even Travis Tygart says that contaminated meat is a problem.

Why are you ignoring this? Disingenuous much?

Of course it is a problem, but not at the level she was tested.

The tainted meat and 'expert evidence' has no relevance at that level, so stop the smokescreen.

...and a) why should they reply directly to you, b) what the hack does 'much' mean after disingenuous? Learn English please.

You aren't making any sense.

quesadilla wrote:

"Nandrolone is not approved for use in any food animal," said Nachman, noting that it's illegal to use any steroid hormones in pig production.

Are you sure that an industry chokefull of illegal labor and with a tainted history on every other account too is now one hundred percent in on always following the rules about never ever under any circumstances 'roiding up cattle for extra profit? ;-)

[quote]tuckeredout wrote:

Seems to think CAS are pretty confident and wouldn’t have handed out four years if they thought it was merely contamination.

That's a stretch.

Tens of thousands of people imprisoned in MA for years based on faked drug test results.