Jerry’s top 3 in trouble

money back wrote:

Mister Cena wrote:

And exactly how much tactical racing was done last year? Three meets is pushing the limits now? I thought everyone was supposed to be mad because they don’t race? Which is it? This is getting really confusing.

Do people here even think before they post, or is it a word salad of poorly informed nonsense?

Think Mo Farah training compared to that of his competitors. Mo didn't chase times, he didn't do tons of world record attempts. He trained to build a kick and win strategic races. Because of that, Mo stayed healthy and dominated.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Jerry did last year, then I can't help you because you don't know anything about the sport.

This is one of the worst takes I've ever read.

` wrote:

money back wrote:

Think Mo Farah training compared to that of his competitors. Mo didn't chase times, he didn't do tons of world record attempts. He trained to build a kick and win strategic races. Because of that, Mo stayed healthy and dominated.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Jerry did last year, then I can't help you because you don't know anything about the sport.

This is one of the worst takes I've ever read.

One of the biggest changes in Farah's training when he joined NOP was the pace of his easy days. I don't think that improves your basic speed specifically. He simply got fitter and also had the speed to win slow races.

money back wrote:

Mister Cena wrote:

And exactly how much tactical racing was done last year? Three meets is pushing the limits now? I thought everyone was supposed to be mad because they don’t race? Which is it? This is getting really confusing.

Do people here even think before they post, or is it a word salad of poorly informed nonsense?

Think Mo Farah training compared to that of his competitors. Mo didn't chase times, he didn't do tons of world record attempts. He trained to build a kick and win strategic races. Because of that, Mo stayed healthy and dominated.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Jerry did last year, then I can't help you because you don't know anything about the sport.

There’s a moderate chance that you might have a brain tumor.

another perspective wrote:

mister cena wrote:

Overreaction. Schweizer is just now going into a mini sharpening phase. Jager already has the qualifier. He’s just playing it safe and training instead of racing. Houlihan just ran 3:57 on this weekend.

You don't peak from 15:00 to sub 14:30 shape. With rest, recovery, and some sharpening you might find 10-15s in the 5000m. If she can do that, she might just be alright for making the team.

Disagree. Peaking can make a huge difference. Especially for a runner who then feels fresh and thrives on the big meets. I have known many runners like that. Rise to the occasion. Add that to peaking and it’s a completely different day.

Bowerman is done.

Jager will win the trials, or a very comfortable 2nd place. They will run the Olympic standard guaranteed, no question

kiowavt wrote:

another perspective wrote:

You don't peak from 15:00 to sub 14:30 shape. With rest, recovery, and some sharpening you might find 10-15s in the 5000m. If she can do that, she might just be alright for making the team.

Disagree. Peaking can make a huge difference. Especially for a runner who then feels fresh and thrives on the big meets. I have known many runners like that. Rise to the occasion. Add that to peaking and it’s a completely different day.

I didn't say peaking doesn't make a difference - I literally said you can find 15 seconds in the 5000m getting it right. What I'm saying is that she isn't the medal contender she looked like last year when she ran 14:26. I'm saying that if you're running 15:00 with zero kick as people with slower 1500m PRs blow by you on the last lap, you aren't just a peak and taper away from PR shape. 15:00 flat is good for ~200th on the all time list while 14:26 is top 20. You don't close that gap overnight.

I still think she's in the driver's seat to make the team, and if she does she'll likely make the Olympic Final. *But* neither are a slam dunk certainty, particularly if Houlihan does end up doing the 5000m and taking a spot.

` wrote:

money back wrote:

Think Mo Farah training compared to that of his competitors. Mo didn't chase times, he didn't do tons of world record attempts. He trained to build a kick and win strategic races. Because of that, Mo stayed healthy and dominated.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Jerry did last year, then I can't help you because you don't know anything about the sport.

This is one of the worst takes I've ever read.

This is actually a spectacular take. They put it into perspective perfectly and if it comes down to it mo F will medal in a tactical race and Lopez/mo A/Scott will not.

Houlihan is doing the 1500m. Hassan has stated she's doing 5k/10k and since the 5k is first, Houlihan would get no advantage from Hassan/Gidey/Obiri doubling back.

Schweizer will be fine. If she's coming off a hiccup, you'd expect her rate of improvement to be higher til the trials. Remember Centro going from a 1:50 high 800m to a 3:35 closing in 1:51 coming off a hiccup? Same in 2016. Goes from getting smoked at the...... Portland Track Festival, then wins an Olympic Gold. If she makes the team, there's definitely time for her to get in 14:26 shape by late July. Even then, that still likely won't be enough to medal with the names mentioned above.

It's unbelievable the persistent panic over Salazar/Schumacher athletes like their coaches don't know how to time a peak.

lke_4:25 wrote:

` wrote:

This is one of the worst takes I've ever read.

This is actually a spectacular take. They put it into perspective perfectly and if it comes down to it mo F will medal in a tactical race and Lopez/mo A/Scott will not.

This is a ridiculous take because he makes it seem like running time trials and preparing kicks are mutually exclusive. Moh already has a global bronze medal at the 5k. The training seems to be working for him.

money back wrote:

Mister Cena wrote:

And exactly how much tactical racing was done last year? Three meets is pushing the limits now? I thought everyone was supposed to be mad because they don’t race? Which is it? This is getting really confusing.

Do people here even think before they post, or is it a word salad of poorly informed nonsense?

Think Mo Farah training compared to that of his competitors. Mo didn't chase times, he didn't do tons of world record attempts. He trained to build a kick and win strategic races. Because of that, Mo stayed healthy and dominated.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Jerry did last year, then I can't help you because you don't know anything about the sport.

most accurate post of the thread so far

we need a better education system wrote:

One of the biggest changes in Farah's training when he joined NOP was the pace of his easy days. I don't think that improves your basic speed specifically. He simply got fitter and also had the speed to win slow races.

I assume that you're basing this on the single statement from Salazar on the subject, which doesn't say that it was "one of the biggest changes." At any rate, I'd be surprised if this was a major factor in Farah's success, and even more surprised if other athletes could benefit from faster easy runs without drugs to improve recovery.

mister cena wrote:

Overreaction. Schweizer is just now going into a mini sharpening phase. Jager already has the qualifier. He’s just playing it safe and training instead of racing. Houlihan just ran 3:57 on this weekend.

Jager doesnt have the qualifer actually

another perspective wrote:

birdbeard2 wrote:

Jager does not have the qualifier. Not sure what you are referring to.

He has auto Q based on world/olympic medals in past cycle. USATF rule 8 I believe.

To the trials not the Olympics he needs to run the Oly standard at the trials

` wrote:

lke_4:25 wrote:

This is actually a spectacular take. They put it into perspective perfectly and if it comes down to it mo F will medal in a tactical race and Lopez/mo A/Scott will not.

This is a ridiculous take because he makes it seem like running time trials and preparing kicks are mutually exclusive. Moh already has a global bronze medal at the 5k. The training seems to be working for him.

It’s like all of the lets run morons of just mutually decided to ignore Olympic gold medals after someone switches to the road.

lke_4:25 wrote:

` wrote:

This is a ridiculous take because he makes it seem like running time trials and preparing kicks are mutually exclusive. Moh already has a global bronze medal at the 5k. The training seems to be working for him.

It’s like all of the lets run morons of just mutually decided to ignore Olympic gold medals after someone switches to the road.

I'm not sure what your point is with that statement. Farah is the greatest tactical racer of the last decade.

Running a couple time trials (during a pandemic, when there are no other races available) does not preclude you from working on a kick as well. You've prevented a false dichotomy where you can only work on one or the other. That is WRONG.

I'm sure Houlihan, Cranny, Stafford, Ahmed, Scott, and Fisher are perfectly happy with their kicks. They are certainly better than anyone else in America (or Canada).

what are you talking about? i think it's actually pretty fair to say that the only people who have started with him as "the best in the us" are a few who were at/after their prime when they joined him. lomong, centro, and shalane come to mind. could probably add gabe d-s to that list (other than the us part) now given doha 2019.

jager & shelby are probably the most accomplished athletes under him at this point. jager followed jerry after his freshman year at wisco & developed under him. shelby was the 2014 ncaa champ in the 1500m but was probably only top 5-10 in the country when she joined btc. now she's in top contention in world championships and multiple AR holder.

add to that moh, woody, freidrichs, elise, karissa...all have made significant strides after joining btc.

` wrote:

MI Strong wrote:

Add Fisher to the list of responding well to Altitude. Did you see his 55 last lap finish?

Fisher has been looking supreme in his last few races. He's a man possessed.

Absolutely agree re: Fisher . . . intended to put him first on the altitude adapters list . . . for a guy who grew up at sea level, he certainly has won the genetic lottery . . . although, by his own admission, his first two altitude camps went badly . . . only after his third camp last year leading up to the BTC intrasquad meets did his body start responding . . . following Flagstaff this winter and now Park City, he's training and racing like he grew up in the Rift Valley

Just a guess here . . . I think Grant will focus on the 5k at the Trials . . . he could win the 10, but I think he and Jerry are looking beyond to the Olympics and figuring his best chance of placing top-10 is in the 5k where he will be fresh against the top guys doubling back from the 10k . . . and, if the Tokyo 5k unfolds like it did in Doha, Grant just might be in a position to compete for a medal . . . again, just a guess.

Regarding Karissa Schweizer, put her recent 15-flat in perspective: Jorgensen, Fraser, Hall and Infeld each ran 15:29, 15:44, 16:04, and DNF at the SoundRunning Track meet a couple weeks earlier. Karissa's 14:26 pr is 22 better than Vanessa's 14:48 pr which is next best amongst this group of leg-weary runners. By this metric, Karissa ran very well at PTF the other night.

Karissa will be rebound in time for the Trials and make the 5k team.

Regarding the women's 5k team, Jenny Simpson & Shannon Rowbury are the real questions marks. Each has run one slow 1500 race this spring and scratched a couple meets since then. Why no public demand for press releases explaining their absences ?

Regarding the title of this thread: maybe Jerry’s big 3 aren’t his big 3 anymore.

Father Time and/or unfortunate injuries constantly reshuffle things. Perhaps Centro, Fisher and someone else are now the top dogs.