The last clean T & F world record and last clean Tour de France winner?

Thank you!

I just read The Comeback, all about LeMond, and honestly, I don't think he was clean. It just doesn't make sense that would have been the ONLY clean TdF winner ever. It's so statistically unlikely. My money is on no clean TdF winner ever. I'm not up on what's been happening the last five years, since the end of Froome, so may they're clean now, but I very much doubt it.

I mean, he led a riders' protest in 1982 against the introduction of doping controls! Hardly the actions of a clean rider.

From wikipedia: " In 2013, he heavily criticised French senators for revealing the results of tests conducted in 2004 on samples from the 1998 Tour de France. He called the initiative "bullsh*t" and urged lawmakers "to stop bringing out the dead", claiming they "want to kill the Tour"."

After Landis was caught there seemed like a possibility that everyone was fed up with the cheating and tainting the sport that the tour may have been pretty clean for a couple years. Then there emerged the wild performances again shortly afterwards and it went back to the old status quo of most people saucing. If you can't beat em, join em.

Absolutely no evidence Lemond cheated, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

World record holders in track? I would say that through the 70's there were many. After which, get's difficult.

UCI World Tour riders are mostly taking supplements whether they consider it cheating or not. Athletes always justify what they are using.

Shaheen not only didn't take any illegal substance, but was an athlete going "bread and water" only : never some vitamin, never some supplement, never some medicine.

Great talent, big focus in training and ecceptional continuity.

I said a lot of time that for speaking you need :

1) To have the interest for searching right informations

2) To find right informations

3) To use those informations.

If you don't want to inform yourself in a correct way, you can only write stupidities, and showing that are an idiot.

Something that punctually happens.

Dude you gotta find a better translator. Please.

LeMond was last clean winner of Tour. EPO was in the sport by that time. Indurain used (like the other top riders) in 90s.

Bolt probably clean, but who can be sure. I mean, Blake was a proven cheater.

Naive to think Lemond was clean given what we know. Lots of people gave Armstrong the benefit of the doubt for a long time. If he would've paid off Floyd Landis, we would still have "no evidence" on Armstrong either. I know there was lots of smoke around Lance with positive tests that went away, etc. That's why I put it in quotes. He was officially "clean" until Landis outed him. Maybe Lemond was nice enough that nobody wants to call him out. Or maybe he was just smarter about it.

WWRD wrote:

Absolutely no evidence Lemond cheated, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Runner10287 wrote:

Dude you gotta find a better translator. Please.

If you didn't understand what Renato wrote then I suggest you find a better brain. Please.

I understand it. But for a guru who has been posting here for years you'd think he'd clean it up at some point.

Snowflake.

Runner10287 wrote:

I understand it. But for a guru who has been posting here for years you'd think he'd clean it up at some point.

Snowflake.

If he suddenly gets better then he will likely be accused of doping

Renato Canova wrote:

Shaheen not only didn't take any illegal substance, but was an athlete going "bread and water" only : never some vitamin, never some supplement, never some medicine.

Great talent, big focus in training and ecceptional continuity.

I said a lot of time that for speaking you need :

1) To have the interest for searching right informations

2) To find right informations

3) To use those informations.

If you don't want to inform yourself in a correct way, you can only write stupidities, and showing that are an idiot.

Something that punctually happens.

so glad you brave letsrun, with so many idiots making claims based on nothing.

when it comes to who's clean and who's not, its a guess isn't it?, unless you are in the inner circles.

certain cases like a Ramzi, Mack Daddy or the women especially, are almost open and shut cases based on visual, established drug use by their group, stats.

letsrun is naive here, and is on the outside with PEDs, it is not that hard to get a list of current "legal" PEDs, and what's going on. or maybe they don't want to.

just doing gym work and cycling with some new mates from colorado, they gave some scoops on the peptide use as the new sprinters and cyclists medicine of choice, and a big name that was using it, that big name of course is an ahole spouting about how drugs are bad etc. etc. because he's got a big TV contract in the UK.

with half a brain, you can find out what's going on really.

if everybody that was a former user came out at the same time and confessed, wrote their story,

then the sport can be reconfigured.

for it is the nature of the beast that a lot of people will do anything to win. and sportsmen are among the most egotistical liars ever. not all of course.

I believe its a guess unless caught. Not to change the subject but even if not caught but training with someone who does get busted raises a red flag for me with those people also unfortunately. Biggest one for me that i hope would never become reality is Kipchoge. HIs main pacer Kitwara gets busted. If you train with people that are using its highly likely you know about it.

Highly unlikely YOU DONT know about it

I think it's fairly well accepted that Carlos Sastre (winner of the Tour in 2008) was a clean rider - he's never been implicated in any doping scandal of any kind and has a squeaky clean reputation. I also reckon Geraint Thomas was clean too but maybe that's just wishful supportiveness

On the track, other than Oregon Project style abuse or line stretching, I reckon most world records are clean - they're just run by exceptional athletes

I think Sastre was as dirty as the rest during his era. Even if a rider was not implicated, others he competed with were, and the by that time doping was very well established.

I think at the TDF there has always been doping on some level. The difference is degree. Before EPO a clean rider could at least compete. After, as Fignon said, it turned mules into racehorses and clean riders could no longer stay with the peloton.

I would say Lemond was the last of the pre-EPO winners. Whether he was completely clean I cannot say, but it was within the range of an actual athletic performance and not a chemical experiment.

Oh Please wrote:

Tour de France expert here.

If my life was on line, I would bet there has never been a TdF winner that didn't "cheat" some how.

Then from mid 60s to mid 80s, you had some anti-doping rules, but in most cases you might only get a time penalty if they managed to catch you. You typically were not barred from the race. I say typically, yet Eddy Merckx, the clear best rider of all time and the second 5 time winner, was busted twice for amphetamines and I believe was even kicked out of the Giro while in the lead.

...

Would be different if the post was for *banned* substances. Since amphetamine wasn't banned in Anquetil's day, he was clean, all riders had ability to consume it. They don't directly grow muscle like T/GH, nor repair muscle for faster recovery. They don't boost VO2 max via increased red blood cells. Coffee is not much different really, it's also a stimulant, and not banned, upto a point. Otherwise you'd have to exclude all those runners quaffing triple caps and gallons of tea.

Merckx also felt that speed/amphi's was the same affect as coffee: "just" a stimulant, it would not turn a flyweight hillclimber into a sprinter and vice versa. But we did see this type of metamorphosis in Lance's era where grinders were turned into amazing hill climbers due to the more sophisticated body altering PEDs they took that were beyond stimulants.