Sydney Thorvaldson Gatorade Girls Runner of the Year

runnerexpert wrote:

trophy for all wrote:

You neglected to mention she finished 30 seconds behind leaders in that FL race and was second in her class to Vanderkooi. Also there is no handicap adjustment to your finish place based on your claimed weekly mileage.

Post of the day above, let's see what happens when she gets a steady diet of quality competition.

Cr why is this the post of the day? He's talking about completely irrelevant things that happened over a year ago that have no relationship to this thread. This Thread is about cross country from this year doesn't matter what you did the year before

Yep she got her butt kicked by the competition.....Dudek, Starliper, Vanderkooi, and Hart!!!! And got beat badly at Millrose by Starliper and Whittaker. Not a good record against the elites?

trophy for all wrote:

You neglected to mention she finished 30 seconds behind leaders in that FL race and was second in her class to Vanderkooi. Also there is no handicap adjustment to your finish place based on your claimed weekly mileage.

Irrelevant points.

The question is how does she respond to competition?

At FLN in both 2018 and 2019 she posted her highest speed rating of the year while finishing ahead of well known elites. The answer is that she responds to high level competition by running faster.

fh wrote:

trophy for all wrote:

You neglected to mention she finished 30 seconds behind leaders in that FL race and was second in her class to Vanderkooi. Also there is no handicap adjustment to your finish place based on your claimed weekly mileage.

Irrelevant points.

The question is how does she respond to competition?

At FLN in both 2018 and 2019 she posted her highest speed rating of the year while finishing ahead of well known elites. The answer is that she responds to high level competition by running faster.

Thanks Rick

bbg95 wrote:

fh wrote:

With no FLN or NXN this year the number 1 ranked boy Parker Wolfe signed up for Runninglane and top boys from all over country came to challenge him.

Likewise the number 1 ranked girl Jenna Hutchins signed up for Runninglane but some of the top girls did not show up. That's on them not her. Her 15:58 was a statement that she was more than ready for them.

Extremely well said.

I'm sorry, but a couple of points...1) these are high school kids, their ability to just jump across the country for a race is not what you make it out to be 2) there was this thing called Covid going on...put a fair damper on the ability to pick and choose any race you wanted 3) Thorvaldson had no reason to chase Hutchins...obviously, and by the Gatorade result that most people were expecting, she was the runner to beat....and no one did.

Again, I take nothing away from Hutchins, but there is not one argument that I have seen that puts her above Thorvaldson. That is not a knock against her, but coming into the 2020 Thorvaldson was the runner to beat in XC.

Anyway, I find the overall argument silly. Both had great years and are very deserving athletes.

Jedsdead wrote:

bbg95 wrote:

Extremely well said.

I'm sorry, but a couple of points...1) these are high school kids, their ability to just jump across the country for a race is not what you make it out to be 2) there was this thing called Covid going on...put a fair damper on the ability to pick and choose any race you wanted 3) Thorvaldson had no reason to chase Hutchins...obviously, and by the Gatorade result that most people were expecting, she was the runner to beat....and no one did.

Again, I take nothing away from Hutchins, but there is not one argument that I have seen that puts her above Thorvaldson. That is not a knock against her, but coming into the 2020 Thorvaldson was the runner to beat in XC.

Anyway, I find the overall argument silly. Both had great years and are very deserving athletes.

This argument kind of falls flat when as fh pointed out, that didn't seem to stop top runners from going in the boy's race. And athletes in all sports have been traveling all over the country for a while now. The race was in November, not April. I don't think Thorvaldson was ducking Hutchins, but I think it's disingenuous to hold it against Hutchins that people didn't come to race her. She can only race against who shows up, and I doubt Thorvaldson or anyone else would have beaten her on that day on that course. I have nothing against Thorvaldson. I just think people on this board are a little too negative toward Hutchins for reasons that I don't really understand.

bbg95 wrote:I have nothing against Thorvaldson. I just think people on this board are a little too negative toward Hutchins for reasons that I don't really understand.

Im sure it has nothingto do with Jenna breaking a bunch of Katlyn Tuohy's records last year...

And record breaking or not, thats how regulars on this board operate. They seek to be negative about incredibly talented kids just for the sake of it. And you end up with the constant pedantic useless mean spirited race horse arguing about high schoolers that you see here. Both kids had great seasons last year. I love Hutchins to death but I had no problem with this pick. Sydney is an amazing athlete and had a monster senior year. Takes nothing away from Hutchins. They can both be good. And the most ironic thing is while all the talentless nobodies and crusty old former coaches on Lets Run argue back and forth about this decision, you can be sure that Hutchins was nothing but happy for Sydney for getting the award because thats the kind of kid shes shown herself to be no matter what people on message boards want to paint her as.

I pretty much agree with this, though I see you use "a bunch" to describe "2" (5,000 and 5K XC)! But yes, some seem to need to knock one athlete down to support the other. I would have loved to see the two race last year - I am not sure any two US HS girls as fast in XC have ever raced, have they? I'm not sure who would have prevailed. FWIW in the original thread on this subject my prediction was that Hutchins would get the award.

Just a comment about 5K Track and XC Records.

Technically, Track “Records” versus “All-Time Best Performances” (aka Track & Field News) should be separated into Outdoor and Indoor “Records”. Jenna Hutchins’ Outdoor 5000 meter Track time (15:34.47) bested Katelyn Tuohy’s Indoor 5000 meter Track time (15:37.12). But technically, Jenna Hutchins broke the high school Outdoor 5000 meter Track time of Mary Cain (15:45.46).

Also, a National High School XC Record at 5K is mostly an invention of MileSplit to originally promote Katelyn Tuohy, and then Brynn Brown and then Jenna Hutchins.

In a Sept 22, 2018 article titled “Rundown And Race Video Of Katelyn Tuohy's Insane Ocean State Course Record”, the NY MileSplit webmaster wrote the following: “Tuohy would cross the line at 16:06.87, rounded up to 16:06.9. Looking briefly at the MileSplit database, it's the fastest full 5K ever run by a High School in XC, better the previous mark set by 2015 NXN Champ Katie Rainsberger, who ran 16:23.4 at the Desert Twilight XC Festival.” And the MileSplit Database became the source of the “National XC Record”. Tuohy’s “National Record” was promoted the following day by USA Today, The Journal News and other NY newspapers. Makes good copy and promotes the sport.

When Katie Rainsberger ran 16:23.4 at the Desert Twilight XC Festival, she ran faster than the previous “Record” holder Amber Trotter (16:24.10) at Foot Locker 2001. I could find no mention of any “National XC Record” in MileSplit or DyeStat articles following the Rainsberger performance. Maybe it did exist somewhere else, but I could not find it. Rainsberger was praised for breaking her own course record.

When Brynn Brown ran 16:12.0 in Sept 2019, Cory Mull of MileSplit wrote “The (Byrnn Brown) effort was just six seconds off the national all-time 5K girls record of 16:06.87, put down by North Rockland's Katelyn Tuohy in 2018 at the Ocean State Invitational.

XC times run in Rhode Island, Arizona, Texas and RunningLane, Alabama should not compared to make a “Record”. Fastest Time, great since it makes an interesting list. Jenna Hutchins deserves great praise for a great run.

I 'm really confused...pretty sure you will not find one negative comment about hutchins...in fact, the opposite. I think she is a great runner, and stated she was also very deserving of the award. How does Tuohy have anything to do with this conversation?

What I disagree with is stating that these 16/17 yr old runners are ducking each other because they didn't fly across the country for one race during the middle of the pandemic. Hats off to their parents / coaches for realizing that this wasn't really a necessity at this time.

I thought Thorvaldson deserved the award...but feel free to attack someone who has a different opinion than you.

it appears the folks at Gatorade also believed that Thorvaldson was deserving of the award. Must be some conspiracy going on here.

Yeah. There really is no such thing as a XC national record because courses and conditions are so variable. You just have to appreciate great efforts on different courses, particularly as a course becomes more established. Unless runner's are running on the same course in similar conditions it is impossible to compare.

Track records are more comparable, but they can still take place under widely variant conditions. (indoor vs. outdoor, pacer vs. no pacer, pacing lights vs. no pacing lights, etc). But conventionally we consider these differences as acceptable and a record is a record.

As to the topic, I thought Sydney was a deserving winner.

thats interesting information. I didn't realize there was a 'record' for xc, since every course was so different. I only knew Hutchins was the first to break 16min.

Good info though, thanks.

Also a big congratulations to Parker Wolfe as the boys national Gatorade winner. I seen this kid race in Colorado at a local meet. He’s the real deal and based on the article he smoked the Running Lane National course. These high school kids amaze me and continue to get faster. Not sure if that’s good or bad but the landscape has changed so much with HS running.

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/295752/cherry-creeks-parker-wolfe-named-gatorade-national-poy

Jedsdead wrote:

I 'm really confused...pretty sure you will not find one negative comment about hutchins...in fact, the opposite. I think she is a great runner, and stated she was also very deserving of the award. How does Tuohy have anything to do with this conversation?

Well, if you read through the threads after Hutchins set some of her marks, you'll find plenty of negative comments toward her or at least comments that negatively contrast her with other runners (usually Tuohy) in a way that is clearly designed to put her down. Your position that both runners had great years and would be worthy winners is perfectly fine.

well I will completely agree with you regarding some people's desire to build up one runner by slagging another...simply is not needed. Hutchins certainly deserves all the accolades she receives. Her and Thorvaldson both had fantastic years.

I will fully admit that while I expected Thorvaldson to do as well as she did, Hutchins caught me completely off guard. Did not see her progressing that quickly...she is very impressive.