King Ches

Great topic I was thinking the same yesterday when I saw him drop out. I agree with those saying he needs to find a new coach and drop HAAS as his coach because it’s clearly not benefiting him. He doesn’t seem to have teammates near his level. Feel bad for the guy because he went from kicking everyone’s ass as a Duck to dropping out in a race where Ben True an unsponsored athlete runs the OLY standard. Don’t get me wrong True is a phenomenal athlete but everyone expects Ches to perform well.

bugattiaron wrote:

Let's start a movement to have BTC pick up Ches and Drew. Both those guys should be sub-13 by now but they've been slowed down immensely by completely preventable injuries and pseudo-elite coaching.

There’s no way I don’t see them in BTC! Drew has no one to blame but himself for not running in college. The money was that good I guess.. However, Drew is smart for taking initiative as a young entrepreneur. Tinman Elite is doing fine as fine as marketing themselves and staying relevant. Ches is lost IMO.

high school coach 756325 wrote:

not matt hughes wrote:

And stop with the less competition junk. It’s the same level then as it is now. For example, guys like Ryan Hill (7:30) and Lawi Lalang (13:00) were just as strong. You’ve either got a really poor memory, or just haven’t followed track abd field for very long.

Ryan Hill graduated before Ches started college. They literally raced zero times.

Lalang and Ches raced twice at NCAAs. Ches won indoors in the 5k an hour after Lalang ran a mile prelim. Lalang won outdoors in the 5k.

And you say my memory is bad? You can't even remember who Ches raced against because he raced against NOBODY.

You’re right. They probably never raced over 15/mile, but it was just a quick example of the quality of the era that ches was in the ncaas. I believe Ryan graduated in 2013 (the year Ches won the xc champs), as he was in my semi final in the 15 that year. However, I have no desire to look it up. Anyway, I took the time to list a few of the weak plodders in the Ches era that apparently are “NOBODY”:

Eric Jenkins

Paul Chelimo

Diego Estrada

Kemoy Campbell

Kirubel Erassa

Stan Kebenei

Girma Mecheso

Moh Ahmed

Pat Tiernan

Shadrack Kipchirchir

Woods Kincaid

Justyn Knight

Sean Mcgorty

Morgan Mcdonald

Grant Fisher

Marc Scott

I don't know why you'all think this guy needs US citizenship. He's been here since he was a 28 year old high schooler. Obviously, he has some sort of super visa that allows him to stay here forever without ever getting a job or having any special technical skills. There is no chance of him ever getting deported.

Cheserek has been the most overrated athlete in the sport over the last 2-3 years. A workout champion who is no longer a contender when it counts. I know of at least 6 other Kenyans who have become US citizens in the last 5 years, a lot less time than he has had.

hobbyjogger21 wrote:

Ryan Foreman wrote:

On top of that he put a very high value on his privacy and avoiding public attention to himself.

A guy that calls himself "King Ches" doesn't want to draw attention to himself?

Does he call himself that? I don't know but I highly doubt it.

Ches raced Chelimo exactly once, and Chelimo ran a 31:10. Deigo Estrada never overlapped with Ches in the NCAA.

Dairyland wrote:He’s the best to ever do it in the NCAA. Morgan McDonald is great and all but you really think he’s out kicking Ed Ches? No shot

Ches had an overrated kick. His senior year he got beat by a freshman Josh Kerr in the mile.

In the 2019 NCAA indoor 3k, McDonald's last 2 laps were 28.44 and 26.32 for a 7:52. 26 low is MOVING. He even accelerated in the last 50 meters before slowing down again. He could have easily closed in 25.00 if necessary. Ches isn't close to that.

In 2016 Ches closed the 10k in 57.24 (29:09 total time) and the 5k in 57.07 (13:25 total time).

In 2019 Shumway closed the 10k in 55.88 for a similar time of 29:16. McDonald closed a slower 5k in 52.91 in lane 2 while significantly slowing down the last 15 meters.

In 2016 Ches closed his 10k in 58 but in 2018 Ben Flanagan closed his 10k in 56

Someone doesn’t understand running. Are all kicks created equal? No. Is a 26.00 last 200 in a 1:45 race more impressive than a 26.00 last 200 in a 1:48 race? Yes. For two guys who ran low 7:40s closing in a TACTICAL race isn’t that crazy. I’m baffled by your flawed logic here.

So what you’re saying here is.... Josh Kerr beat Ches... but Vincent Ciattei beat Josh Kerr in the 15 a year later so that means that Vincent is better than Ches. See how dumb that sounds? Ask yourself why people run the race and maybe this answer becomes a lot less stressful for you to understand.

I’ve now lost brain cells on a thread that I found kinda interesting for a few posts.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Tommy Haas may not be a great coach from what I saw of some workouts years ago on video but he was a 7:51 3k guy in college, so you can't just say he should stick to being an agent. He obviously knows a little about training and racing.

This is amongst the worst arguments. Running fast, and proximity to sound training (as Haas had under Chapman), is only tangentially related to being a good coach.

Ed Ches is 3:33 and 13:04 guy btw. You can’t tell me that he wouldn’t have made a worlds team since graduating for the US. 2019 champs come to mind when our third 5k man was Hassan Mead

Hard to call him the king anymore. He was the king in college. If we held a 3 event race over the next 10 days of a 1500/5k/10k and invited Hunter, Fisher, Ches, McDonald, Hoare, Teare, Mantz, and Nuguse and scored it, who wins? I will bet you any amount of money that it is not Ches. I put my money on Fisher.

Pretty sure Diego still had eligibility in 2013; but again, I’m just listing people of the era. Not sure what your point was with Chelimo. The argument was the competition during that era, not how many times he raced so and so or how well someone ran. Any comment on the other 15 that were listed?

hobbyjogger21 wrote:

Ryan Foreman wrote:

On top of that he put a very high value on his privacy and avoiding public attention to himself.

A guy that calls himself "King Ches" doesn't want to draw attention to himself?

Didn't Flotrack start calling him that

my two pennies wrote:

rojo wrote:

he's run 349 mile, 1304, and 2723 as a pro.

I'll add he also ran 7:38. .

The DAY AFTER running the 349 indoor mile. And he did with a great kick destroying some good Ethiopians. He looked amazing. But that was then.....

team player wrote:

Ches had an overrated kick. His senior year he got beat by a freshman Josh Kerr in the mile.

In the 2019 NCAA indoor 3k, McDonald's last 2 laps were 28.44 and 26.32 for a 7:52. 26 low is MOVING. He even accelerated in the last 50 meters before slowing down again. He could have easily closed in 25.00 if necessary. Ches isn't close to that.

lol. This is amateur hour, huh? Ches had a fantastic kick and your cherry picked some of his slower ones. Ches isn't close to to Mc's 26.32? Oh really?

FAIL. I believe he's had some 25.x last 1/2 laps too.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

team player wrote:

Ches had an overrated kick. His senior year he got beat by a freshman Josh Kerr in the mile.

In the 2019 NCAA indoor 3k, McDonald's last 2 laps were 28.44 and 26.32 for a 7:52. 26 low is MOVING. He even accelerated in the last 50 meters before slowing down again. He could have easily closed in 25.00 if necessary. Ches isn't close to that.

lol. This is amateur hour, huh? Ches had a fantastic kick and your cherry picked some of his slower ones. Ches isn't close to to Mc's 26.32? Oh really?

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/06/4-4-edward-cheserek-runs-24-7-last-200-blow-away-field-ncaa-10000-final/

FAIL. I believe he's had some 25.x last 1/2 laps too.

Yeah Ches was like a little jumping bean when he got going the last lap, it was amazing to see. There's obviously something wrong now because he should still have that sort of speed.

He would be a perennial medal threat if he had kept his progression going. That's Farah type closing speed.

outdoors is different than indoors

high school coach 756325 wrote:

outdoors is different than indoors

That's your rebuttal?

Anyway, why all this noise about U.S. citizenship? It's one of the main subjects every time Ches comes up. Nobody is demanding Rono become a U.S. citizen. Dominated the NCAA. Seemed to be here for decades thereafter. Wasn't there an article here on LRC about Henry finally getting back to Kenya fairly recently? Yet there were no 10-page threads about him not being a U.S. citizen.

Why do all of you demand this from Ches but nobody else? I haven't read about anyone being all up in arms about Farah not having citizenship when he was in the country for a decade. All of you were fine with him not being. Seems he'd spent little time in the U.K. back then. I actually used to wonder if he'd ever been there for more than a week at a time. Yet, lack of citizenship here was no sweat. Look, the United States doesn't force anyone to naturalize. Neither do Message Board posters.