Calling all Old Guys! Will running destroy my body?

agip wrote:

look, anything can happen.

One thing I know: marathoners tend to break down as they get older more than shorter distance guys.

If longevity is the goal, don't do marathons, don't run too much, and cross train.

I started running serious again at the age of 33. I’ve run 30 Marathons since. Know I’m 48 and not running them becomes my performances were falling off a bit. But I am perfectly fine waking around and I am on way better shape than anyone else I know my age. So, it depends, although I think you are right for the most part.

The thing that has scared me the most is seeing all of these guys around my area that we’re sub 2:20 guys in their prime that can run at all now and are in their 60’s. They actually have trouble walking now. Honestly, another reason why I stopped competing seriously.

Charlie wrote:

I can match my age graded scores doing way less hard stuff are the tables soft or was all that macho hard stuff I did in my early 40s worth nothing? Those last few seconds per mile will shorten your running career or too many races or too much volume. Enjoy running race now and then do a little hard stuff but try not to become obsessed like so many runners do.

But Charlie, aren't you like 128lbs at 5'10"?

You called?

Been running since "52. First coach, Jim Bush, Fullerton High School, CA.

Still out there shuffling and joggling, even after a couple heart procedures and a minor stroke.

I will tell you one thing: no matter what all the detractors, critics, and even doctors say: my life, health wise and attitude wise has been a blast, and largely because I have run consistently 50-120 mis per wk and run innumerable road races and hung with a runners club.

Friendly-to-vicious competition was never rancorous, just motivation and fun.

Wouldn't have lived any other way. Going out today, a week after a minor stroke, to start from scratch--again. Like getting a driver's license renewed. (Which I just did, too.:))

Screw all the naysayers and fake experts: you will not, at all, never lose the joy and benefits of running at any time, anywhere, at any level. Even when what you're doing could not even strictly be called running. Do it anyway. You'll be glad you did!

Jim

Doing many thing a that are fun and enjoyable in your life will wreck your body who cares?

There are some anecdotes of runners wrecking their bodies, but the research is clear that all-in-all runners have healthier joints. And I'll add to the anecdotes: I'm 100 lbs heavier than some of y'all and have been running for 30+ years with no injuries. Hasn't wrecked me yet. I've done lower volume and intensity than you, so maybe that's the key, but non-runners my age seem to have more physical problems.

There is clearly a lot of survivors bias on these board. Not many of these that broke down are still posting on LR. You are still too young to bother, for most people overuse injuries become a severe issue in the late 40s-mid 50s. As some pointed out, if you have not won the genetic lottery, the key to keep running is dealing with the injured properly before they become too severe and strengthen, strengthen, strengthen.

If your main motivation for running is to keep healthy, here is a shocker: that there are other sports that will keep you fit, like swimming, biking, hiking, lifting etc... most of these take a lower toll on your cartilages and if you mix up you may even end up looking good in a bathing suit.

Agree with the earlier comment that it's age that destroys the body. As the old cliche goes, father time is undefeated. The question is how do we slow the rate of decline.

The research seems to indicate that moderate exercise is helpful and excessive exercise isn't. Perhaps the running take away here is that as we age, we should shift from marathons and half marathons to 10ks and 5ks.

I'm in my 40s and run about 40-45 MPW, about half of what I did in my peak competitive hobby runner days. I mainly run 5 and 10ks, with maybe one half marathon a year. That, combined with diet has kept my weight the same as it was in college. I think that's huge.

Of course, none of this guarantees that I won't get osteoarthritis or some other debilitating condition tomorrow. There are no guarantees in life. The best we can do is to make wise choices based on the information available to us in order to shift the odds in our favor.

And I just love that some goofball always brings up Ed Whitlock in these discussions. He was a true outlier - a once in a generation talent. He was an exception to the rule, like the guy who smokes a pack a day and lives to 100. It's unwise to go through life thinking you're going to be an exception to the rule.

hr measurement wrote:

Wasn't the cartilage in one (or both?) of Ed Whitlock's knees almost completely gone?

Go to an over 55 community and talk to a bunch of people over 75 and ask how many have arthritis or knee issues. You will also find that very few of them ran seriously at any point in their life. Old people develop issues pretty much no matter what they did and it is always easy to blame it on something that you did before.

Lots of good advice on this post, but not all of them may apply to any one individual. Stretching for example. I used to stretch, but found that my hamstrings knotted viciously by doing so, so no more for me. Long runs kind of depends on your build. My Dr. ( who was a needle thin cyclist) and I agreed that as a mesomorph (5'-9", 145 lbs) marathons are not for me, but 5k-10k is optimum and my results confirm it. So I hold at 36 miles per week and no more than 6 miles at a time. Weights for strength, yes. Hill work I have dropped because the weight training is sufficient and the hills seem to interfere with speed development. Modest speed work for stride length and cadence maintenance during each workout , yes. Good diet and ample recovery, absolutely. Finding soft surfaces to run on, always. Finding the right shoe, everybody is different and you have to experiment. Supplements as needed. Glucosamine helped me rebuild my knee cartilage after an MRI confirmed osteoarthritis. Worked for me, maybe not for others. Lots of stuff to consider with aging. Just have to keep at it. Had a lot of issues in 2019, but research, training modification and hard work are paying off for the upcoming year + 30 more.

35 male here. IMO, chronic high mileage is actually unhealthy for the body negatively impacting hormone levels, heart and muscle/joint points. Plenty of research supports this. Sure, you can get away with it for a while with good genetics and youth on your side, but eventually you will pay the price in some fashion if you keep it up long term. Its similar to the strong man guys who eat 10,000 calories a day and get huge and lift extreme amounts of weight.. its only sustainable for a short amount of time before the excessive nature of the activity takes a toll.

I dropped my mileage down to 20-25mpw (still do intervals). Lift weights regularly now, and switched to a mostly vegetarian diet. I'm in way better overall shape than I was when I ran competitively younger and I suspect I'll hold up better over time because of it. Thinking about training and running a marathon sounds ludicrous to me at this point.

gsimmons2005 wrote:

Go away wrote:

Congrats, worst post on this thread! You should be banned for spreading misinformation.

What? For advocating stretching? It’s not like I stretch before I run, but I do it at night with some squats and other things to strengthen the joints. Seems to me all the top runners also stretch and strength train, but your entitled to your thoughts,

I suggest you sample a variety of older distance runners, specifically one's who have multi-decades under their belt and ask them if they would agree that "stretch, stretch and more stretching" is the key to limiting injuries. You might be surprised by the responses.

I think cross training is overrated as a healthier alternative to running: road biking is wicked dangerous nowadays and you WILL eventually crash; strength training with poor form will wreck your body; swimming and biking don't do anything to promote bone strength. Not to say don't do any of that, but they're not necessarily safer.

Most important thing you can do to keep running is stay light, avoid traumatic injury (tearing your ACL is so much worse than any amount of mileage you might do), and deal with injuries ASAP rather than training through.

Middle of the Road wrote:

IMO, chronic high mileage is actually unhealthy for the body negatively impacting hormone levels, heart and muscle/joint points. Plenty of research supports this.

The research on negative health outcomes from high mileage is actually not solid at all. It's quite easy to demonstrate positive correlation between mileage and good health out to 25 mpw, but after that the studies are left with such a small number of participants that their statistical power drops dramatically. How many 50 years olds running 50 mpw do you think the studies actually look at? One heart attack more or less ends up having a huge effect. It makes for good headlines, though.

As for stretching, I suspect it's only useful in some cases, but I was one of them. When I saw a PT, he prescribed dynamic calf and hamstring stretches because a restricted range of motion was starting to cause issues. But most people are more flexible than I am.

I'm about to turn 41 and have finally settled into a healthy, sustainable relationship with running.

It goes like this--if you run sensibly, and for the enjoyment of running itself, it is a gift for life. It is a gift that gives life, enhances life and can be done for life (with some luck and a big dose of restraint). There are very few activities that can be safely pursued into old age, with as many mental and physical benefits as running.

I'm in it for both a good time and a long time, because to me they're both the same thing. I never track my runs, I never stress about missing a session, running well be there tomorrow. All I need to do is run more days than not, on balance and in the long term.

I can do that. I love doing that. It's all good.

No. Running is one of the healthiest things most people can do to their bodies. In fact I would say it is the opposite of the warnings you get.

I have pretty severe osteoarthritis in one knee but that is a result of 3 surgeries none of which were really running related. Two ACL tears and a meniscus tear. For reasons not necessary to go into, I had no ACL for decades (still do not) so the meniscus took the brunt of the load and eventually tore). The other knee looks "amazing"---that is a quote from the orthopedist I saw a few days ago who took X rays.

54 years old and have no solutions that will work for everyone, just passing on what's worked for me. Currently, I can easily turn in a sub 19 5K and ran 31 minutes for an 8K masters cross country race last year. I run 4 times a week and ride my bike twice a week when the weather is warm. In the winter months, I either run a fifth day or lift heavy and ride the spin bike once a week. I never do the same run/workout two days in a row and I try and mix in as many different shoes and surfaces as I can. Currently, I run in about 5 different shoes and split up my days on trails, dirt, grass and pavement (not more than twice a week). There are serious injuries to be had on the trails but I'm a big believer that the benefits far outweigh an occasional sprained ankle. The core strength developed on the trail and easiness on the bod makes it my "go to" run after workouts or long runs. I also take the gym pretty seriously but only hit it twice a week. Most of my time there is spent on core work. In the past five years, I have not had an injury. There have been a few hot spots that have encouraged me to take a week off or just ride for a few days but I get up and feel good pretty much every morning. There is certainly a little fear that some day every thing is going to go to hell but, knock wood, I am fine today and have been running since I was ten. Final note, I used to run marathons and ultras but about ten years ago I decided they took too much time and beat me up to much.

I'm a bit older than you and my pops is still running in his 70s so I think I'm good.

Tearing an ACL.

I've read that yoga and other dynamic stretching for range of motion achieves such improved range of motion by changes in ligaments, not the muscles and tendons so much. So, it makes sense to maintain adequate, but not too much, range of motion with stretching. You don't want joints that are so loose or so tight that your cartilage surfaces rub the wrong way. But, considering that with age comes increased unhelpful cross-linking of collagin fibrils due to AGE's (advanced glycation end products from over heated protein with sugars - like in fried or grilled meat, toast, dry roasting), you are more likely to snap a ligament or tear a tendon or break a bone. Cross linking that is created enzymatically, naturally, is good. It enabled adaptation for the function of the tissues, and maintains viscoelasticity where needed. With age comes increased exposure to AGE's, so you have to not over do it. Non-enzymaticly produced crosslinking can't be undone, not like the collagen remodeling that normally occurs, but decreases with age. You might be a speed demon, but your connective tissue gets worse with age, and will break down eventually. Don't speed the process along.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S175161611400201X

hr measurement wrote:

Charlie wrote:

I can match my age graded scores doing way less hard stuff are the tables soft or was all that macho hard stuff I did in my early 40s worth nothing? Those last few seconds per mile will shorten your running career or too many races or too much volume. Enjoy running race now and then do a little hard stuff but try not to become obsessed like so many runners do.

But Charlie, aren't you like 128lbs at 5'10"?

64 years 5' 7" which is what I was 20 years ago , but less muscle at 128 lbs.

Here is a video of me breaking 6 on my 64th with just a little tiny bit of fast stuff and non of the small amount of fast stuff was done to the point of having high lactate levels. Going to the well too many times is a big mistake. I just did this mile wearing a smile but I do hard stuff too just not much. I will never be a world beater just a good local age grouper which is fine with me.