Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

Why does anyone care about an out-of-season 4 mile race? I ran mid-18-min for 4 miles and I never considered myself a world beater. That "amazing" 4 miler only equates to a 13:45 for 5000m, so not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Coe ran 14:02. Accept that. Aouita ran a world record 5000m. Coe did not. Aouita also raced faster over 3000m. Accept that.

Coe had the endurance of a good university runner. It says something that he couldn't string together a solid 5000m or 3000m over the course of such a long career.

You Brits (Coe's blood relatives) are so defensive. You feel the need to flood a US based internet site not to tell the world how great was S. Coe in 800m and 1500m but to tell of Coe's secret potential in 5000m. Coming on letsrun and explaining how a low 14 5K 5000m runner was really an undercover low 13 5K man is pathetic.

You're wrong about Coe wrote:

You Brits (Coe's blood relatives) are so defensive. You feel the need to flood a US based internet site not to tell the world how great was S. Coe in 800m and 1500m but to tell of Coe's secret potential in 5000m. Coming on letsrun and explaining how a low 14 5K 5000m runner was really an undercover low 13 5K man is pathetic.

Pretty sure he ran that 5000m race as a tempo run. To think Coe couldn't at the very least run a 13:20 5000m time is just crazy. With some extra mileage and not getting tainted blood he probably would have ran 13:0x 5000m.

Deanouk wrote:

Can't you read!?

14:06.2?

hahahahahahaha swallow that. He was SLOW at 5000.

You know the funny thing? Seb Coe is still alive. We should ask him. So is Ovett and Cram, which both have said they aren't sure of Coe's long distance ability.

WeJo, can you reach out to Coe and find out what he thinks... which of course we'll take with a grain of salt...

Sand Dunes wrote:

Pretty sure he ran that 5000m race as a tempo run. To think Coe couldn't at the very least run a 13:20 5000m time is just crazy. With some extra mileage and not getting tainted blood he probably would have ran 13:0x 5000m.

There are athletes who fall off a ledge. You cannot simply take everyone's 1500m PB, then multiply by (3.5 to 3.75) to know someone's 5000m potential. Some athletes get significantly worse from 1500m to 5000m. You know you did a scope shift. I was debating the merits against another poster's 13:10 estimate of Coe's ability. Your response to me: You're wrong! Coe was a secret 13:20 man.

Peter Coe, after S. Coe retired wrote books with David Martin, PhD, gave speeches and met with coaches around the world advocating S. Coe's cross-training and low mileage methods. I like those training methods, but for 800 METRE RUNNERS. I don't believe Coe's training methods translated to race success past one mile. I will push back against anyone who comes on here and claims Coe would have been a great 5000m man.

This is a Coe v. Aouita thread. Will the Coe fans please be smart an admit Aoutia would have destroyed Coe at both 3000m and 5000m.

Steve Scott ran a 13:30 5000m off of his mile training. If you can run a sub 3:50 mile you can at the very least grind out a 13:30 5000m just off of your mile training.

You keep debating me, but you keep moving closer to 14:xx 5K. Now were debating Steve Scott v. S. Coe. You do know S. Coe slightly ridiculed Steve Scott's training methods. Steve Scott ran well over 100 miles a week. S. Coe said: Long slow training makes for long slow runners. Now you want to label S. Coe a secret 13:30 5000m man.

Rose Colored Glasses wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

Steve Scott ran a 13:30 5000m off of his mile training. If you can run a sub 3:50 mile you can at the very least grind out a 13:30 5000m just off of your mile training.

You keep debating me, but you keep moving closer to 14:xx 5K. Now were debating Steve Scott v. S. Coe. You do know S. Coe slightly ridiculed Steve Scott's training methods. Steve Scott ran well over 100 miles a week. S. Coe said: Long slow training makes for long slow runners. Now you want to label S. Coe a secret 13:30 5000m man.

LOL, that is if you believe that is how Coe trained. That was a bunch of disinformation on how he trained. Canova mentioned on another thread how he witnessed Coe do a 30 kilometer long run in a 1:40 or so. People who actually looked into Coe's training log know he regularly ran 80+ miles a week. Decades later he admitted he regularly ran 100+ miles a week. On Steve Scott training, from the log on here it seems pretty reasonable. Not much crazy about, he did seem to focus more on steady state kind of runs. Now he probably only did that low mileage BS during the racing season. But the idea he did low mileage year round is just plain foolish to believe in.

Damn, Coe was slow.

14:06 for 5000m?

7:54 for 3000m?

My little brother ran those times as a semi-pro in 1994.

Rose Colored Glasses wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

Steve Scott ran a 13:30 5000m off of his mile training. If you can run a sub 3:50 mile you can at the very least grind out a 13:30 5000m just off of your mile training.

You keep debating me, but you keep moving closer to 14:xx 5K. Now were debating Steve Scott v. S. Coe. You do know S. Coe slightly ridiculed Steve Scott's training methods. Steve Scott ran well over 100 miles a week. S. Coe said: Long slow training makes for long slow runners. Now you want to label S. Coe a secret 13:30 5000m man.

That quote is usually attributed to Peter Coe. And I'd be surprised if S. Coe actually ridiculed Scott's training methods, since Scott's mile PR is .3 slower than Coe's. And Scott has faster PRs at 2000 and 3000 than Coe (and Ovett).

61 men have ran under 3:50 for the mile. 5000m PR of each of them:

THOMAS WESSINGHAGE One Mile 3:49.98 5000 Metres 13:12.78

TAREK BOUKENSA One Mile 3:49.95 5000 Metres 13:33.83

SIMON DOYLE One Mile 3:49.91 5000 Metres 13:28.71

HOMIYU TESFAYE One Mile 3:49.86 5000 Metres 13:58.73

NICK WILLIS One Mile 3:49.83 5000 Metres 13:20.33

VYACHESLAV SHABUNIN One Mile 3:49.83 5000 Metres 13:43.39

JIM SPIVEY One Mile 3:49.80 5000 Metres 13:15.86

CALEB MWANGANGI NDIKU One Mile 3:49.77 5000 Metres 12:59.17

WILFRED OANDA KIROCHI One Mile 3:49.77 no listed 5000m time on his IAAF profile but he has a 3000m time of 3000 Metres 7:46.76

RAY FLYNN One Mile 3:49.77 5000 Metres 13:19.52

MUSHIR SALIM JAWHER One Mile 3:49.75 5000 Metres 12:59.79

MEKONNEN GEBREMEDHIN One Mile 3:49.70 5000 Metres 13:22.89

TIMOTHY CHERUIYOT One Mile 3:49.64 no PRs listed beyond a mile

JOSÉ ANTONIO REDOLAT One Mile 3:49.60 5000 Metres 13:23.14

COLLINS CHEBOI One Mile 3:49.56 no 5000m PR listed but has a 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:44.24

FERMÍN CACHO One Mile 3:49.56 5000 Metres 13:46.65

RUI SILVA One Mile 3:49.50 5000 Metres 13:19.20

MIKE BOIT One Mile 3:49.45 5000 Metres 13:35.70

JAMES KIPLAGAT MAGUT one Mile 3:49.43 no PRs listed beyond a mile

ABDI BILE One Mile 3:49.40 no 5000m PR listed but has a 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:42.18

ANDREW BADDELEY One Mile 3:49.38 5000 Metres 13:20.85

BENJAMIN KIPKURUI One Mile 3:49.34 no 5000m PR listed but has a 1:06 half and 2:17 marathon PR

DAVID MOORCROFT One Mile 3:49.34 5000 Metres 13:00.41

JOE FALCON One Mile 3:49.31 5000 Metres 13:20.49

ILHAM TANUI ÖZBILEN One mile 3:49.29 no 5000m PR listed but has a 3000 Metres 7:50.61

JENS-PETER HEROLD One Mile 3:49.22 5 Kilometres 14:09

PETER ELLIOTT One Mile 3:49.20 no 5000m or 3000m pr

ABDELAATI IGUIDER One Mile 3:49.09 5000 Metres 12:59.25

ELIJAH MOTONEI MANANGOI One Mile 3:49.08 no distance listed beyond a mile

JOHN WALKER One Mile 3:49.08 5000 Metres 13:19.28

RONALD KWEMOI One Mile 3:49.04 5000 Metres 13:16.14

CRAIG MOTTRAM One Mile 3:48.98 5000 Metres 12:55.76

DERESSE MEKONNEN One Mile 3:48.95 5000 Metres 13:07.75

SYDNEY MAREE One Mile 3:48.83 5000 Metres 13:01.15

HARON KEITANY One Mile 3:48.78 no PRs listed beyond a mile

AMAN WOTE One Mile 3:48.60 no 5000m PR listed but has a 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:43.99

ASBEL KIPROP One Mile 3:48.50 5000m PR was done at altitude so I'll list the 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:42.32

WILLIAM KEMEI One Mile 3:48.40 5000 Metres 14:10.40

STEVE OVETT One Mile 3:48.40 5000 Metres 13:20.06

ANDRÉS MANUEL DÍAZ One Mile 3:48.38 no 5000m PR listed but has 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:46.15

DANIEL KIPCHIRCHIR KOMEN One Mile 3:48.28 5000 Metres 13:04.02

ALI SAIDI-SIEF One Mile 3:48.23 5000 Metres 12:50.86

PAUL KORIR One Mile 3:48.17 5000 Metres 14:13.66

DAHAM NAJIM BASHIR One Mile 3:47.97 5000 Metres 14:15.92

WILLIAM CHIRCHIR One Mile 3:47.94 no 5000m listed has a 3000 Metres 7:58.45

SILAS KIPLAGAT One Mile 3:47.88 5000m PR is not reflective as it is essentially the same as his 10k pace so I'll list his 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:39.94

JOHN KEMBOI KIBOWEN One Mile 3:47.88 5000 Metres 12:54.07

JOSÉ LUIS GONZÁLEZ One Mile 3:47.79 5000 Metres 13:12.34

STEVE SCOTT One Mile 3:47.69 5000 Metres 13:30.39

LABAN ROTICH One Mile 3:47.65 no 5000m pr listed but has a 3000m pr of 3000 Metres 7:47.97

SEBASTIAN COE One Mile 3:47.33 IAAF does not list his 5000m PR but list his 3000m PR of 3000 Metres 7:54.33

AYANLEH SOULEIMAN One Mile 3:47.32 5000 Metres 13:17.97

BERNARD LAGAT One Mile 3:47.28 5000 Metres 12:53.60

ALAN WEBB One Mile 3:46.91 5000 Metres 13:10.86

SAID AOUITA One Mile 3:46.76 5000 Metres 12:58.39

VÉNUSTE NIYONGABO One Mile 3:46.70 5000 Metres 13:03.29

DANIEL KOMEN One Mile 3:46.38 5000 Metres 12:39.74

STEVE CRAM One Mile 3:46.32 5000 Metres 13:28.58

NOUREDDINE MORCELI One Mile 3:44.39 5000 Metres 13:03.85

NOAH NGENY One Mile 3:43.40 3000 Metres 7:35.46

HICHAM EL GUERROUJ One Mile 3:43.13 5000 Metres 12:50.24

https://www.iaaf.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/one-mile/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&page=1&bestResultsOnly=true&firstDay=1899-12-31&lastDay=2018-12-09

Now since I spent about the last hour compiling that list, someone else can average out the average 5000m time of everyone who has ran faster than 3:50 for the mile.

When did Morceli run his 13:03 5000m PB?

Well, Sand Dunes, you've made Seb Coe look even worse now for never threatening a decent 5000m time based on his 1500m ability. Could an aspect to this be that he feared the distance on the track? Could there be a psychological aspect, since many of you seem to believe that physiologically he could have done it?

I think the evidence stands that Coe did not run a great 3000m or 5000m performance in his life. It's more than likely his genetic make-up and training that did not lead him to have success in these races in his career.

The proof is in the pudding.

You have generalised and distorted what many posters are arguing and have stated on here.

I can't think of anyone who has claimed that Coe was (could have been) a better 3000m or 5000m runner than Aouita!

I for one went out of my way to make it clear that Aouita would beat Coe over any distance longer than 2000m, and even at that distance Aouita would have a slight advantage.

Secondly, you are now disputing the claim that people have said that 'Coe would have been a GREAT 5000m man'.

What is your definition of great? Again, I have stated that Coe was a great 800 and 1500m runner and that he would not have been as successful over 5000m. Previously people have said that he was not capable of running an elite time for 5k, which I dispute. That is not the same as claiming he would have been a 'great' 5000m runner.

Based on his 800/1500 training alone, Coe was capable of something in the 13:20's, which would have been an elite time during that period. This is based on the fact he beat other 13:20 guys on the roads over distances as far or further.

To deny this evidence is like saying that although Bolt beat Michael Johnson or Wayde VN over 500m, he wasn't capable of recording an elite time over 400m! Which of course would be utter nonsense.

ljlk wrote:

Well, Sand Dunes, you've made Seb Coe look even worse now for never threatening a decent 5000m time based on his 1500m ability. Could an aspect to this be that he feared the distance on the track? Could there be a psychological aspect, since many of you seem to believe that physiologically he could have done it?

I think the evidence stands that Coe did not run a great 3000m or 5000m performance in his life. It's more than likely his genetic make-up and training that did not lead him to have success in these races in his career.

The proof is in the pudding.

I believe a lot of this has to do with him doing his 3000m/5000m races early in the season. If you watch the documentary born to run(? Is that the right documentary?). He runs a local 5000m track meet, but he sits on the back and just waits till the last lap to kick it in for the win. Who knows what he could've done in the peak of track season, right after running a 3:47 mile. At the vey least he could've ran a 13:30 5k.

Gregory K. Palm wrote:

When did Morceli run his 13:03 5000m PB?

According to his IAAF profile he did that in 1994 at the Zurich meet.