Where you fail is in the basic assumption that a clean athlete cannot break a dirty WR. For whatever reason this is some unalterable fact to you when to everyone else it is plainly obvious that clean athletes can break dirty WRs with sufficient advances in training, equipment and once in a hundred years talent.
highhoppingworm wrote:
Where you fail is in the basic assumption that a clean athlete cannot break a dirty WR. For whatever reason this is some unalterable fact to you when to everyone else it is plainly obvious that clean athletes can break dirty WRs with sufficient advances in training, equipment and once in a hundred years talent.
There your ignorance of doping is made plain. You have no idea of what it does for athletes. Most sports fans are the same. You also are so naive as to not realise that amongst those who dope are the best trained and most talented.
Armstronglivs wrote:
highhoppingworm wrote:
Where you fail is in the basic assumption that a clean athlete cannot break a dirty WR. For whatever reason this is some unalterable fact to you when to everyone else it is plainly obvious that clean athletes can break dirty WRs with sufficient advances in training, equipment and once in a hundred years talent.
There your ignorance of doping is made plain. You have no idea of what it does for athletes. Most sports fans are the same. You also are so naive as to not realise that amongst those who dope are the best trained and most talented.
So just to be clear... the mental construct you have created is that you believe Mu is clean and therefore cannot break the WR. But if/when she does break the WR you will then be immediately convinced she is dirty? Got it. It must really suck waking up as you every day.
VIPAM wrote:
Yes Jarmilla the 800m WR waste rod class at 200m to 800m and on steroids; however Athing My as an 18 yr old is world class at 400m and 800m and one of the collegiate best at 1500m. Her 400m collegiate record came the first year she targeted the 400m collegiately and her 1500m ov came in a blowout and just outside of the TOP 10 marks collegiately. She seldom runs the 1500m and probably have less then 10 1500m/mile races lifetime in a 4 year period. She is much better at 1500m right now then we think.
Athletes of today have 30 years of evolution to overcome Jarmilla's tainted 800m record. ATHING MU is a once in a lifetime athlete, not even 1:54.30 18 year old Pamela Jelimo could match Athing times from 200m tov1500m. I. fact not since Mary Decker-Slaney have we ever seen a teenager with such potential from 200m to 1500m. GMary Decker end up being WR holder at 800m to 3000m and ELITE world class at 5000m)10000m. Yes I see Athing being able to be world class up to 5000m, so stop it the young lady has the talent to break the WR but have develop her potential and stay focused and healthy to accomplish the momential feat
I'm curious what your first language is.
Armstronglivs wrote:
You're wrong. She followed the leaders - her "pacemakers" - through the first lap in a fast 57x, poured it on in the 3rd 200 and then gave it everything in the last 150m. Just under 59s for the second lap. A fantastic finish but she was holding nothing back. "Perfect conditions" don't exist unless the athlete is in perfect shape - which she is. The Olympic final may not be run as fast as 1.56. If Mu gets to 1.55 I will be impressed. I think it possible. But even taking fractions off now will be hard.
3rd race in 4 days, getting tripped in the first 100m and running on the outter side of the 1st track ENTIRE race, therefore at least 807m in total.
At least 1 second for running trajectory + 1 second for fresh legs. That's 1:54.0 ability in Monaco if all goes right.
highhoppingworm wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
There your ignorance of doping is made plain. You have no idea of what it does for athletes. Most sports fans are the same. You also are so naive as to not realise that amongst those who dope are the best trained and most talented.
So just to be clear... the mental construct you have created is that you believe Mu is clean and therefore cannot break the WR. But if/when she does break the WR you will then be immediately convinced she is dirty? Got it. It must really suck waking up as you every day.
No - that isn't my "mental construct". I don't know if Mu is clean. And neither do you. She may be. She may not. But if she beats a clearly doped world record my conclusion will be that she is doped. Clean athletes don't beat world records today, because the very best dopers are faster than the very best clean athletes. If that were not so we would have no concern about doping, because it wouldn't enhance performance. I haven't seen you argue that.
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You're wrong. She followed the leaders - her "pacemakers" - through the first lap in a fast 57x, poured it on in the 3rd 200 and then gave it everything in the last 150m. Just under 59s for the second lap. A fantastic finish but she was holding nothing back. "Perfect conditions" don't exist unless the athlete is in perfect shape - which she is. The Olympic final may not be run as fast as 1.56. If Mu gets to 1.55 I will be impressed. I think it possible. But even taking fractions off now will be hard.
3rd race in 4 days, getting tripped in the first 100m and running on the outter side of the 1st track ENTIRE race, therefore at least 807m in total.
At least 1 second for running trajectory + 1 second for fresh legs. That's 1:54.0 ability in Monaco if all goes right.
The wonderful thing about speculation is that it remains speculation. Sport has a way of rendering speculation irrelevant. Results will be what they are.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
3rd race in 4 days, getting tripped in the first 100m and running on the outter side of the 1st track ENTIRE race, therefore at least 807m in total.
At least 1 second for running trajectory + 1 second for fresh legs. That's 1:54.0 ability in Monaco if all goes right.
The wonderful thing about speculation is that it remains speculation. Sport has a way of rendering speculation irrelevant. Results will be what they are.
The wonderful thing about science is that you can't fool it. Athing Mu already ran 800m in 1:55.20 on her way to 808m in 1:56.07. Now she needs to find a race where she can run close to the rail - probably Monaco.
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The wonderful thing about speculation is that it remains speculation. Sport has a way of rendering speculation irrelevant. Results will be what they are.
The wonderful thing about science is that you can't fool it. Athing Mu already ran 800m in 1:55.20 on her way to 808m in 1:56.07. Now she needs to find a race where she can run close to the rail - probably Monaco.
No she didn't. She ran what she ran. If she runs faster then - and only then - will she run faster.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
The wonderful thing about science is that you can't fool it. Athing Mu already ran 800m in 1:55.20 on her way to 808m in 1:56.07. Now she needs to find a race where she can run close to the rail - probably Monaco.
No she didn't. She ran what she ran. If she runs faster then - and only then - will she run faster.
She ran what she ran - 1:55.20 800m on route to her 1:56.07 808m. So you know now, that she can go even faster in a time trial character race.
The wonderful thing about science is that you can't fool it. Athing Mu already ran 800m in 1:55.20 on her way to 808m in 1:56.07. Now she needs to find a race where she can run close to the rail - probably Monaco.[/quote]
I've got news for you. In an 800m everyone runs further than 800m. No one runs on the rail. All times are further than 800m.
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No she didn't. She ran what she ran. If she runs faster then - and only then - will she run faster.
She ran what she ran - 1:55.20 800m on route to her 1:56.07 808m. So you know now, that she can go even faster in a time trial character race.
Wrong. No one can run on the rail. Everyone has to run several meters further.
Whether she runs faster will depend on imponderables such as her health, fitness, how she is feeling on the night, her judgment of pace (and that of any pacemaker) and her motivation - not to mention the track and conditions. Pulling them all together is a lottery.
I expect her to run faster - but not because you say she already has based on misapplied calculations.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Wrong. No one can run on the rail. Everyone has to run several meters further.
Whether she runs faster will depend on imponderables such as her health, fitness, how she is feeling on the night, her judgment of pace (and that of any pacemaker) and her motivation - not to mention the track and conditions. Pulling them all together is a lottery.
I expect her to run faster - but not because you say she already has based on misapplied calculations.
Except people, who run 30cm away from the rail - that's how you get 800m. In a fast race where only a rabbit would be in front of Mu, that's exactly what would happen. Stay close to the rail - run 800m - enjoy your AR. Absolutely the same effort like in the final during trials, except with fresher legs, since no heats / semis.
You have to be borderline retarded not to understand that Mu running 1:56 almost on the second lane has to have a 1:55 ability in a time trial. Just simple maths, man.
Armstrong live
You seem to be a student if the sport so please show it and stop the non sense. Jelimo never got faster because she never extremely wealthy after her breakout and Olympic gold and became complacent. She stop listening to her coaches and training hard. Off pure talent she did comeback and win an indoor World title and another Olympic medal. Now fast forward to someone with more talent then Jelimo and you have Athing MU.
Barring injury and accident at the Olympics...Athing will run away with Olympic Gold and somewhere this season a sub 1:55 clocking.
Athing may not get the WR this year but if she stayed in the sport and healthy 48 25, 1:52.445 , and 3:52.00 are all possible for Athing MU.
Sopa de SabadelI wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Wrong. No one can run on the rail. Everyone has to run several meters further.
Whether she runs faster will depend on imponderables such as her health, fitness, how she is feeling on the night, her judgment of pace (and that of any pacemaker) and her motivation - not to mention the track and conditions. Pulling them all together is a lottery.
I expect her to run faster - but not because you say she already has based on misapplied calculations.
Except people, who run 30cm away from the rail - that's how you get 800m. In a fast race where only a rabbit would be in front of Mu, that's exactly what would happen. Stay close to the rail - run 800m - enjoy your AR. Absolutely the same effort like in the final during trials, except with fresher legs, since no heats / semis.
You have to be borderline retarded not to understand that Mu running 1:56 almost on the second lane has to have a 1:55 ability in a time trial. Just simple maths, man.
It isn't the math you think it is. The difference may be a few tenths at the most - but that may be offset by the additional motivation in taking a championship title. There are a lot of factors that will influence the outcome, not just proximity to the rail.
I am not arguing that Mu isn't capable of running 1.55 or thereabouts. I do not agree with your calculation that she already has.
VIPAM wrote:
Armstrong live
You seem to be a student if the sport so please show it and stop the non sense. Jelimo never got faster because she never extremely wealthy after her breakout and Olympic gold and became complacent. She stop listening to her coaches and training hard. Off pure talent she did comeback and win an indoor World title and another Olympic medal. Now fast forward to someone with more talent then Jelimo and you have Athing MU.
Barring injury and accident at the Olympics...Athing will run away with Olympic Gold and somewhere this season a sub 1:55 clocking.
I dont believe Jelimo was clean. I dont see that an 18 year old was nearly 2 seconds faster than a talent that Mu is at 19 without being doped. Can you visualize how much further she would have been in front of Mu with that time? At least 15metres. No way. If clean.
I have said I wouldn't be surprised if Mu runs 1.55 at some point in her career. I am sceptical that any runner who is faster than that can do so clean, for reasons I have previously explained.
Armstronglive
Once Athing runs 1:54 are you going to admit you were wrong or are you going to tell drugs. The talent that is Athing MU doesn't need drugs to break the 800m WR in her career. She is world class in 400m and 800m with room to improve and could be world class at 1500m to if she simply focused on the 1500/mile. That's why no drugs is needed for her to break the 800m WR.
Armstronglivs wrote:
VIPAM wrote:
Armstrong live
You seem to be a student if the sport so please show it and stop the non sense. Jelimo never got faster because she never extremely wealthy after her breakout and Olympic gold and became complacent. She stop listening to her coaches and training hard. Off pure talent she did comeback and win an indoor World title and another Olympic medal. Now fast forward to someone with more talent then Jelimo and you have Athing MU.
Barring injury and accident at the Olympics...Athing will run away with Olympic Gold and somewhere this season a sub 1:55 clocking.
I dont believe Jelimo was clean. I dont see that an 18 year old was nearly 2 seconds faster than a talent that Mu is at 19 without being doped. Can you visualize how much further she would have been in front of Mu with that time? At least 15metres. No way. If clean.
I have said I wouldn't be surprised if Mu runs 1.55 at some point in her career. I am sceptical that any runner who is faster than that can do so clean, for reasons I have previously explained.
18 year old Max Burgin ran 1:44.14 a few weeks ago, he'd be 15+ metres ahead of 19 year old Kipeter, Coe, Cruz so this means he's doping then?
No. You're an idiot.
VIPAM wrote:
Armstronglive
Once Athing runs 1:54 are you going to admit you were wrong or are you going to tell drugs. The talent that is Athing MU doesn't need drugs to break the 800m WR in her career. She is world class in 400m and 800m with room to improve and could be world class at 1500m to if she simply focused on the 1500/mile. That's why no drugs is needed for her to break the 800m WR.
1.54 or below is drugs. You don't know the difference they make to elite performance. Talent doesnt run faster than talent-plus-drugs. If that were so drugs would not be performance enhancing and we wouldn't care about them.