Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

also, take a picture of them and have video showing the whole mat. if he cheated and crossed those mats, it has to be on the video crossing or whoever actually had the chip on their shoe. piece of cake.

Try Googling for the term

Argument from personal incredulity

Its what you and others are apparently doing.

Cocoa Puffs wrote:

also, take a picture of them and have video showing the whole mat. if he cheated and crossed those mats, it has to be on the video crossing or whoever actually had the chip on their shoe. piece of cake.

This seems like a great idea, but they should make sure the mat isn't so sensitive that if you just go near it it will register. Ouch1000 pointed out how the mats are so sensitive that race staff setting up the start line set it off a bunch of times by mistake with a chip in the guy's pocket (wasn't on shoe or bib)

Too much unresearched conjecture on this thread. If I wanted to try to game the Boston marathon, here's what I think I would do. This took me 20 minutes to figure out.

First - download the instructions that the volunteer checkpoint people get: Here is a 2010 link for the volunteers. About 7/8th of the way down the document it lists precisely where the mats are. An interesting note, the checkpoint people are at every 5M, not at the 5K mats. There are there to manually document the first 100 male and female leaders to then later reconcile their times with the mat times, that's it. Everyone else is not tracked for all intents and purposes.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0BrfinYVelHNzVlMzEyOTItMTY1OS00MmIwLTk5OWEtMjg1NGM2NjgyZjQ2/edit?pli=1

Second, download a googlemap version of the course.

http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/fullscreen/143368/

Third - run the first half normally. The first half of the race is very easy. 95% of people go out too hard and fade. Not that hard to do.

Fourth - bail out somewhere after the half marathon split, take a bike or ride (motorbike?) on to rt 9 and hit the 25K mat at the corner of hillside road. Back on ride to the 30K by getting back onto rt 9 and cutting up Chestnut st. Back to bike, back down chestnut and onto Beacon st where I would cut thru some small road by BC and hit the 35K. Cut down to Boylston st and then Brookline ave and up a side st to then hit the 40K. Run the rest. Get bike, if applicable, later.

I have no idea if that would really work with road closures etc but it might. It's not rocket science.

Again, 20 minutes.

Your plan may work but not the way you describe because Rte. 9 doesn't allow you to make left turns.

If you are headed east you will need an interchange with an overpass to get north of 9.

You would have to use the route below which assumes two things:

1. You can park your car in the Wellelsey MBTA lot which is 300 meters from the half mat. Also assume two minutes to get to it and get it started up.

2. You can get your car close enough to the 25k point on Walnut Street for another 300 meter walk/jog to the mat, again allowing two minutes for transition. The huge assumption here is that you can leave your car parked on the street or in someone's driveway for two or three minutes.

Both of these transition points give you about 12 minutes to make the drive between 21.1 and 25k. He split this in 16:48 in 2010.

Google says 11 minutes, but I have no idea what traffic conditions actually allow on Marathon Monday. I would assume it's much slower then.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Linden+St&daddr=42.30814,-71.28065+to:42.3162881,-71.2467763+to:Walnut+St&hl=en&ll=42.311275,-71.27655&spn=0.054078,0.09407&sll=42.313084,-71.265435&sspn=0.027038,0.047035&geocode=FcBohQIdCB7A-w%3BFSyShQId9lfA-ynDoQpnUYHjiTEok3QJ9GLe-w%3BFQCyhQIdSNzA-ykl75uR0YPjiTGVR1ey8uqqDA%3BFWzAhQIdqJvA-w&t=h&mra=dvme&mrsp=2&sz=15&via=1,2&z=14

He may very well have done this in 2009, but it cost him because it took two minutes longer- 18:47 that year. I think he did something different in 2010.

MarathonMind wrote:That's basically what interests me here. Some are saying 'big deal he hitched a ride between mats' thinking it's so easy at Boston when in fact it's not due to the traffic and road closures. Far easier said than done.

Occam's Razor. He didn't cheat.

Really dude? How do you explain this?

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/30k/image705.html

Does that really look like the stride of a guy running a 19:42 split?

Did he really average 6:20 miles up two of the Newton Hills?

My Occam's Razor tells me something else.

Highly unlikely in 2010 he ran the first half and then pulled a ghost routine.

The splits at 15k, 20k and 1/2 all indicate a 2:55ish marathon. At that point it would be easiest to just keep going & finish out the race legit.

The bodies of water on both sides of the 15k area prevents any reasonable cutting opportunities, except if you were a 4-5 hour pace jogger.

The splits are so unusually realistic one could ALMOST believe they were real.

Reservation for Copperfield? Copperfield??

Exactly why I find it so interesting. If not for the pictures where it looks like he's jogging and the fact that he changed clothes then there would be no evidence to suggest that it wasn't a legit performance.

JOKM wrote:

Occam's Razor. He didn't cheat.

I think you misunderstand Occam's Razor

"It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect."

Nowhere does it say that you can't make any assumptions or that an unlikely assumption is as good as a likely one. We know he didn't run the whole race.

The simplest assumption is that wheeled transport was used, people can trip over themselves by over complicating from now until Christmas speculating about what could and could not have been done - go out there and drive and bike it. Finally for the very stupid, we do know that roads were closed, we even know which ones

Thanks as you just repeated what how many posters have said in the last 15 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That picture has been discussed repeatedly. The answer...it can't be explained and he knows it. As someone posted a few pages ago, he didn't expect to show up in pictures and I agree with that person as it's now quite obvious.

If I were him and I was legit, I'd be on here defending myself and explaining. Sorry, you can't explain that away, impossible. Hidden bid, why? On the shoulder, head down, why? Etc...the hand was in the cookie jar and grandma was watching from the front room, but you didn't know it.

Hmmmmmm wrote:

We know he didn't run the whole race.

No you don't.

JOKM wrote:

No you don't.

The photo you seem to have ignored on the previous page proves it, nobody running a race tries to hide on the course, instant DQ for concealed number, need I go on?

JOKM = Kip Litton!!!!! (scary I know!!! Dude still believes in his mind he ran those races!!!!!)

Hmmmmmm wrote:

JOKM wrote:

No you don't.

The photo you seem to have ignored on the previous page proves it, nobody running a race tries to hide on the course, instant DQ for concealed number, need I go on?

Look at the pictures of Boston 2007. Were all those runners who concealed his/her number get an "instant DQ?"

No they didn't. Try again.

How's everyone doing? I've been away over a week, lettin' the dust settle ... just checking here how things have been. Heard somebody might've 'hacked' my name and see it's true. I didn't write the quote below (& hope I've resolved the registration issue). Touching on the theme of the imitation, I don't give a rat's ass how much 'credit' I might get in the story about Dr Litton. We've all done our part to 'out' Dr L and, frankly, if not for the tremendous work of the LR sleuths and the details they discovered, it's unlikely the story would've attracted the attention of any writer other than me. Good for all of you!!When I share this sad tale w/friends, naturally they have questions. One of them is what many here have spent a considerable amt of time working out in recent days - the 'hows' of his deception. As I said before, we'll never know for sure because Kip isn't talking. So, rather than spend time on speculation in a story, it can be summed in a sentence or two and get on w/the more intriguing (at least it is to me) question - 'why' did he do it? This one confounds everybody I talk with. Why, why, why? Knowing 'why' puts the 'hows' in motion. He fits the model of a typical race cheat - white man in his 40s (40s when he began cheating). I'll leave you to work on that one. Sems a far more central matter to all this than, even, the wild lengths he went to cheat. Finally, I feel for the guy. I really do. I feel for how the story will affect him & his family. His wife knows about the charade. But his kids...? Soon enough, the story will, in ways not predictable, tip Kip's life sideways and somehow touch his family. He's been offered every opportunity to tell his side - and either turned them down or trotted out his party line of lies. Back to you pundits - I suspect you'll continue working on the 'hows' because they're easier to figure (altho, ultimately frustrating because you'll never know for sure). Any amateur psychologists out there want to give a shot @ the 'whys'? Per Kip & his Boston # ... another one we may never figure out but, as has been mentioned by others, 3rd parties are allowed to pick up a # for others. And, finally, it was surreal to see him emerge from his dental office on Boston Monday.

Thanks for coming back and putting all the imposter trolls in their place.