Another run across America underway - is it legit? Boots currently on the ground

Go make some more graphs nerd

Finally we have clear evidence that the trecking poles excuse is BS, and conveniently our resident troll sneakers has forgotten how to download data from strava. Oh the irony

It's hard to say it's just people who think PJ is a fraud who are causing all the negativity. Seems like a lot of new accounts, people trolling, maybe trying to get the thread shut down. Maybe even people on PJ's team? This is all happening over on the new thread at the ultramarathon sub now, a lot of negative energy. But, the ultramarathon mods seemed excited to get the thread and clearly don't mind all the negativity, not like that one mod who lost his mind and quit over at ultrarunning. I guess they want the traffic more than they want a positive ultra running space.

@DataLoves1, would you consider jumping back in this discussion. Really felt your analysis was insightful and particularly in light of this new seemingly smoking gun, I'd be very curious to see what you think.

Do you buy this analysis of folks who have lineup video of PJ using trekking poles and recording a cadence of 120. Is this the smoking gun people think it is? Have you had the chance for any deeper dive on the data inspection? Thanks much.

According to instagram it looks like Paul was in the big group walking outside using poles at least from ~6pm to 7:30pm, he finished his run at ~7:50pm. This is corroborated by Rob's instagram story saying he was walking in the big group at 33 miles which is around 6:20pm.

From 6pm onwards his average HR was 75bpm (but we know this is wrong, it is invalid for the whole run, he put his watch over his jacket). His average cadence was 122.5. These rough values are very easy to see in the strava charts, but I calculated them with the exported data.

It is a shame with the HR. If we had that, we could establish a rough baseline of when he is using poles. We could then break down his other runs into %s of run vs. walking with poles vs. mystery zero cadence time.

We probably don't have enough data to do that reliably. But it would be very unreasonable to attribute his zero cadence periods seen in other runs to use of poles, because the data doesn't look like it does during this fairly long (1.5hr+) period when it appears he was using poles.

It seems very unlikely he was using poles during the zero cadence periods in other runs. I'd love to hear an explanation as to what other variables could be affecting his recorded cadence.

I'm no expert, but I heard not running affects cadence!

The whole watch thing is so telling. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who Is legit, does everything in their power to prove they are doing it.

Some may have tech fails, or be under prepared tech wise, that's OK, but it's how you remedy these situations. If you are going for any record, you cover all bases, with back up, and back up for the back up.

Quite simply - nobody can ever accuse me of cheating.

Completely agree. I don't have much motivation to download any more data, because it proves very little. This new "smoking gun" just invalidates the poles excuse. If the existing data is not enough evidence for someone to be suspicious, nothing more is going to change that.

At some point common sense must prevail, not raw numbers. As you said, anyone legit would go to efforts to validate their run and their data. He could make sure both watches are working, upload the data from both, wear them on opposite wrists, get a Garmin running dynamics pod to attach to his pants.

But yet... here we are. Everyone should form their own conclusions. At the end of the day he's not going for FKT anymore and his credibility is already under significant question among most in the running community. Most of his remaining true supporters would probably stand by him even with irrefutable evidence.

I didn't want to prove you wrong yet again today as you and your group deal with the fallout of being banned from the Reddit threads for being toxic. PJ has already won.

And yet Rob Pope did none of that for this transcon in 2018 and had tons of cadence dropouts that would be evidence of him cheating and had none or close to no boots on the ground following him as witnesses that PJ has.

I've noticed that you have completely avoided engaging with this new analysis that during a time folks are tying to PJ's use of trekking poles his cadence never drops out as we see for other extended periods. You even went radio silence for a bit directly following that post whereas you've hardly had a break any other day of this debate.

Curious.

Could you please just leave us alone. Sure some folks have been a bit too aggressive in their allegations, but there are enough reasonably minded people in this chat that PJ clearly doesn't need your protection. Your obsession with Rob is similarly offputting. I've honestly seen very little that you offer here in terms of actual insight and the idea that we are wrong for even engaging in the conversation is a tired trope.

Instead you resort to continual name calling and questioning of peoples character. You are not a good person just cause you're in here defending someone who clearly isnt the most principled person (PJ) to begin with. Anyways, for what it's worth, if you could find a different way to engage in this type of defense or debate you'd come off as way less of a dingle-berry.

Respectfully yours,

PGtips

Reddit thread is up and running nerd. What are you talking about

Oh, only the 1400 comment thread where first Reddit mod called you and your group toxic and resigned and booted you all out and a second Reddit mod had to take over:

In your first paragraph, you want me to give you the data analysis to prove your prejudices against PJ.

In your second paragraph, you contradict yourself in the first paragraph by now telling me to leave you alone.

So which is it? You are telling me I can't take a couple days off to rest and yet you also tell me to go away.

PJ should soon be approaching Witchita KS so roughly half way done in 26 days. By comparison, on day 26 on the same route, PK would be about 60 miles west of St Louis MO (~1872 miles in). 50% complete in 26 days is impressive but not nearly as impressive as 63% complete.

Looking forward to Sneakers vigorously defending my sketchy cadence and HR data against all you haters when I do my transconn and ride in the van way more than Paul is getting away with 😏

We should just Ignore SOTG.

Looks like he had a better day today. Will he be able to string more together? I’m guessing probably not. He’s painted himself in a real corner and I cannot wait to see how he plays this out.

I just noticed PJ doesn’t hold a single CR on Strava. How is that even possible ? Not a single one.

Been seeing this same post about him failing for 2 weeks at this point. Can't wait for people to flip about his HR for the first 10-15 minutes of yesterday's run.