2021 was interesting - with no at large bids, RunningLane was sort of a free for all. Gives a glimpse as to what might be if the at large cap of 2 per region were lifted.
Just looking at the top 22 spots:
CA - 1, 7, 13
SW - 2, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17
NW - 3, 20, 22
NE - 4
S - 5, 16, 21
MW - 14*, 19
SE - 18
HL - 0
NY - 0
* - Sandberg HS was perhaps the best team in the country to not attend RunningLane.
Not sure about Heartland but NY sent zero decent teams to RunningLane. Saratoga would have likely won the girls' race and Corning would have likely been top 10 in the boys'.
The location of the meet, COVID restrictions, and simple fact that it was pay to play (meaning rich/funded programs like those in Cali, Colorado, and Utah) heavily favored the Southwest teams which is why we saw so much representation from them. The fact that NXN is paid for by Nike (regionals obv not free but far far cheaper than traveling to Alabama) makes a big difference.
Vandegrift does a very strange slow start and move up concept that is problematic on the Nike South course. It is very difficult to pass there and this strategy backfired bigtime.
The course penalizes slow starters and may have also affected Bridgeland Girls normal 4.
I don’t think this strategy will work at the NXN course either.
It didn’t for American Fork. It cost them the national title
I competed at NXN in high school. This was our trademark and won us the state title against a very good (podium) team. We underperformed at NXN trying to do it. Definitely does not work on that course, in that race - you will get swallowed up. NXN is all about getting into place in the first 1k and holding on.
Nike takes who they want. They ultimately hold the meet to make money.
They lose money on the meet, but hope to eventually get it back as high school kids positive toward NXN grow up to spend $500+ annually on Nike products.
Shouldn´t being senior heavy discourage teams from having an autoqualifier? it seems like a team like Captials from the Southeast with only one senior, their fourth, would have done better in that area, since they would get experience this year and come back next year with a chance at doing better. I don´t think the southeast deserved a bid, but it just seems to me like younger teams would get preference since they can run it multiple years.
The meet organizer gets no benefits from young teams running multiple times.
Who knows with injury, transfers, improvement/decline if a young team will manage to qualify again?
Somebody, however, will fill out the field and make the trip.
Human nature would generally rather see a group of seniors make it, but it is not a factor used by committee to pick at larges.
Nike takes who they want. They ultimately hold the meet to make money.
Very far from true….explain how how flying kids and coaches ( over 400 ) in to PDX, housing them p, feeding them, destroying a golf course, gear and swag, and so on makes money? The entry fees from the Nike Regionals do not cover costs……not even close.
They make money. There were 5000 entrants at just one of the regionals.
Production cost for last year's Parker Valby materials over $1 million.
There is also basically a full time staff dedicated 6 months to the execution, plus all the employees who help at headquarters site, paying the athletes who come, hotel and flights for athletes. That's tip of the iceberg.
Project is an expense line in promotion/marketing budget (with entry fees offsetting meet costs), not included as revenue/sales.
I competed at NXN in high school. This was our trademark and won us the state title against a very good (podium) team. We underperformed at NXN trying to do it. Definitely does not work on that course, in that race - you will get swallowed up.
NXN is all about getting into place in the first 1k and holding on.
Elizabeth Leachman will disagree with you. I bet she tries a different strategy this year.
I'm pretty certain they do a Power Merge for NXN purposes. After merging all teams, they take the top 20(?) and do another merge. Seems appropriate and fair.
That’s great if that is the case, and makes my post moot (and foolish) Do they post that 20 team merge anywhere?
I'm pretty certain they do a Power Merge for NXN purposes. After merging all teams, they take the top 20(?) and do another merge. Seems appropriate and fair.
That’s great if that is the case, and makes my post moot (and foolish) Do they post that 20 team merge anywhere?
I don’t think it’s posted anywhere outside of this forum but check out post 1995. Someone did a calculation
Shouldn´t being senior heavy discourage teams from having an autoqualifier? it seems like a team like Captials from the Southeast with only one senior, their fourth, would have done better in that area, since they would get experience this year and come back next year with a chance at doing better. I don´t think the southeast deserved a bid, but it just seems to me like younger teams would get preference since they can run it multiple years.
Well, Great Oak boys won NXN in their first time out. As did Loudoun Valley.
And Rocky Mountain would have a hard time cracking the top 4 in the Northwest next year
2021 was interesting - with no at large bids, RunningLane was sort of a free for all. Gives a glimpse as to what might be if the at large cap of 2 per region were lifted.
Just looking at the top 22 spots:
CA - 1, 7, 13
SW - 2, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17
NW - 3, 20, 22
NE - 4
S - 5, 16, 21
MW - 14*, 19
SE - 18
HL - 0
NY - 0
* - Sandberg HS was perhaps the best team in the country to not attend RunningLane.
Not sure about Heartland but NY sent zero decent teams to RunningLane. Saratoga would have likely won the girls' race and Corning would have likely been top 10 in the boys'.
The location of the meet, COVID restrictions, and simple fact that it was pay to play (meaning rich/funded programs like those in Cali, Colorado, and Utah) heavily favored the Southwest teams which is why we saw so much representation from them. The fact that NXN is paid for by Nike (regionals obv not free but far far cheaper than traveling to Alabama) makes a big difference.
The best HL boys teams ran at RunningLane. Wayzata, Millard West, Sioux City North. All finished in the 20's.
On the girls side, Saratoga's absence was noticeable.
On the boys side, though...Corning likely top 10? Ranked MS #15 with SRs of 190, 185, 173, 171, 170...quick math suggests they would've been 20th or so at RL with those numbers. Their 3200 PRs in 2022 also suggest a 15th-20th best team.
Union Catholic was 4th, so CBA may have been a top 10 team in 2021.
Huntsville is actually much closer to New York and New England than it is to California, Colorado, and Utah. Like, hundreds and hundreds of miles closer.
I'm really curious to hear more about this well-funded-ness that heavily favors Cali, Colo, and Utah teams.
So many of us thought that Bridgeland girls should have been selected, but according to Tullyrunners, Southlake Carroll girls are projected to take last
So many of us thought that Bridgeland girls should have been selected, but according to Tullyrunners, Southlake Carroll girls are projected to take last
And they might, but Bridgeland was way ahead of them at state and it counted for nothing. The NXR south course is super weird. That's how Flower Mound didn't get out once but then placed 6th nationally after getting an at large bid. It is a course that penalizes slow starters (see Vandegrift boys) more than a typical course. In this case, Vandy got the benefit of the doubt for the exact same state and NXR placings that Bridgeland girls had.
Why? Simple. National publicity over the course of the season. Go look at how stupid the NXR South girls rankings were all year. For whatever reason, the person or people in charge of that region just ignored all the results despite win after win after win. Bridgeland only got in the top.5 after placing 2nd at state. They weren't ranked while teams that they beat were ranked. I really don't think these people research enough. They missed the boat on Smithson Valley all year, too (they were without their sub210 800 girl at NXR.)
Another thing - it seems like you have to go to Woodbridge to get an at large out of the south region.
I"lll close it up with this - the south is better than people give it credit for. Rogers girls were 4th with a roster that had something like 6 sub 510 1600 runners. That's stacked.
So many of us thought that Bridgeland girls should have been selected, but according to Tullyrunners, Southlake Carroll girls are projected to take last
the south is better than people give it credit for. Rogers girls were 4th with a roster that had something like 6 sub 510 1600 runners. That's stacked.
What are you talking about it? Me and a few others were boasting on the nxn thread all year long just how good the south region would be. Everyone said vandegrift should get 3rd bid after two southwest bids. As for girls, people on here were also saying bridgeland for fourth bid. My guess is that it is because flower mount won woodbridge this year. That's pretty good.. Considering SE #3, MW #3 were a bit better in my opinion.
Midwest is the region that deserves more credit than what people give them on this site.
the south is better than people give it credit for. Rogers girls were 4th with a roster that had something like 6 sub 510 1600 runners. That's stacked.
What are you talking about it? Me and a few others were boasting on the nxn thread all year long just how good the south region would be. Everyone said vandegrift should get 3rd bid after two southwest bids. As for girls, people on here were also saying bridgeland for fourth bid. My guess is that it is because flower mount won woodbridge this year. That's pretty good.. Considering SE #3, MW #3 were a bit better in my opinion.
Midwest is the region that deserves more credit than what people give them on this site.
I think there were a handful of people on this thread. I think there were none on the committee. The runnerspace at large preview didn't even mention Bridgeland girls and I'm pretty sure the writers are either on the committee or talk to members. That's what I'm talking about when I refer to people. Not fans.
Shouldn´t being senior heavy discourage teams from having an autoqualifier? it seems like a team like Captials from the Southeast with only one senior, their fourth, would have done better in that area, since they would get experience this year and come back next year with a chance at doing better. I don´t think the southeast deserved a bid, but it just seems to me like younger teams would get preference since they can run it multiple years.
Well, Great Oak boys won NXN in their first time out. As did Loudoun Valley.
And Rocky Mountain would have a hard time cracking the top 4 in the Northwest next year
I’m pretty sure this is the first time in Jeff Howard’s career that the Rocky boys won’t be clearly the best or second best team heading into the next year.