7:17.55! Jakob Ingebrigtsen DESTROYS 3000m WR

I know the history much better than you do. You have proved so many times.

This logic underlying this is always just glossed-over.

The only “substantive” response is that doping doesn’t benefit the best (the Canova fantasy)…or that it simply doesn’t work at all.

While I admittedly don’t know if that’s the case in distance, I do know that it is NOT the case in sprints.

Bolt would be 9.08-9.28 on drugs. Sure.

Ingebrigtsen is one of the slowest over 800 but your point merely reinforces what I have been saying, that doping compensates for relative lack of speed by greatly increasing stamina. However we also see that those above with the quicker 800 times have a faster finish than Jakob.

Of course you didn't understand what I was saying. You can go back to sleep now.

A one second difference in PB means absolutely nothing in terms of 1500m performance. Kessler has a 1:43 PB, where was he in the final? Laros 1:44, Gourley 1:44, Cheruiyot 1:43, where did they finish?

1) All athletes, including dopers can of course copy the training, recovery, tech, nutrients etc, but they can't dope like they did in the 90s, they'd get caught. Sure, you might micro dose, but that's it.

As I already said in my original post, I am sure someone with even better genetics using the same scientific approach as Jakob has done since pre-teens will come along soon enough.

Also: People act like Jakob is the only one that run fast these days, but time wise we are already in a golden era as far as the strength of the field is concerned in almost all running diciplines.

Let's not forget in the same race yesterday Aregawi ran 7:21, the world's 3rd fast time of all time.

I have no reason to believe he is doped. Do you?

Also, the records have been falling in the 5k and the amount of people running sub 3:30 have just exploded compared to previous eras.

2) Sounds fast, but I wouldn't rule it out, as the developments in training, shoes, reccovery, nutrition, wave lights etc would apply to dopers as well.

Hypothetical however, as they'd be glowing like a light bulb and get caught.

Says the guy who frequently posts at 1, 2, 3, 4 a.m. (his local time).

Your fixation on Jakob's 800m speed is beyond ridiculous.

But hey! Over 200 posts in 48h! Whatever makes your sleepless nights more eventful!

No, no! The great Fartstronglivs is always right! Facts mean nothing!

General population are clueless when it comes to estimating the efficacy of doping. It depends a lot on the person but with using EPO the effect in 3k is ranges from 0 seconds to 10 seconds. Some people don't have any discernible impact from EPO (for example 3 month usage period), most people get a small but clearly measurable benefit and some are extreme responders and can gain 10s.

In elite level the effect of EPO is much smaller than among hobbyists because the pros have very high blood cell count naturally.

For women the advantages of free for all doping is of course much bigger than for men due to their naturally low testosterone.

You have written that Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell have been. That's wrong, he has surpassed them by some margin. 800m speed isn't the only measure, Dumb.

Another gold in 2028 in the 10000m and a WR in the 5k, and Ingebrigtsen is the greatest distance runner in history.

Despite Gebrselassie, Bekele, Kipchoge or El Guerrouj. Snell and Elliott are not in contention here.

We need to stop talking about the 800 lol. Jakob has never focused on the 800 and could surely run slightly better if he did. He’s a mid-d/distance guy and doesn’t need to waste time proving what his max 800 is

No one cares about events he does not run.

100m, 200m, 400m. Who cares?

I don't care how good a golfer he is either. Just 1500m thru 5000m. The events he competes in.

Wait for Dumbs reply! It will come.

1) Ashenden has shown that one can still safely use 20 if not 30 IU/kg. So about half of the good old standard dosages, not exactly "micro". Plus blood transfusions of course are still undetectable - look at the recent blood doping cases with their respective values in the DT/CAS reports to see with how much manipulation athletes get away with (and with how much they don't) - scary stuff in there.

2) My source was for elite athletes. Blood doping only, but ok, full throttle blood doping. Schumacher even estimated up to 1 minute for elite 10k runners.

Does anyone really buy this to be legit? Broke it by 3 seconds and the WR he broke was fishy.

If Ingebrigtsen and Komen had been running in identical weather conditions, with identical shoes, on identical tracks, with identical pacing, who would have produced a better performance? We can only guess. But for those who are skeptical of the influence that the track spike technology introduced in 2019 (following on distance shoe technological revolutions introduced in 2016), there have been several studies that have attempted to investigate the effects of new track spike technology (especially the carbon fiber plates) on performance.

Research report #1 can be found here:

runningwritings.com

The science of running in super spikes: New data on Nike, Adidas, and PUMA track shoes

John Davis

Open link

. This is a report of a "preprint" (i.e., pre-publication) of studies carried out in three labs in Spain, the U.S., and Canada.)

Research report #2 is here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/373373930_Advanced_spike_technology_enhances_sprinting_speed
August 27, 2023, This report comes from researchers in Cologne, Germany

Research report #3 is here:

phys.org

New study shows that 'super spikes' can increase track running speeds by 2%

New research led by the University of Massachusetts Amherst shows that super spikes, scientifically described as advanced footwear technology (AFT) spikes, can give runners about a 2% edge in middle-distance track races, like...

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This is the newest report, coming out just before the Olympics, on July 29, 2024. It is from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

All of the above investigations demonstrated that the effect of the superspikes on performance is real, but quantifying it remains challenging, especially because effects vary from one name brand to the next and from one athlete to the next.

The following is not a research paper but rather a summary article that explains some of the reasons for why superspikes do indeed improve performances.

athleticsweekly.com

The benefits of carbon fiber track spikes - AW

Athletics Weekly

AW promotion

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Did Ingebrigtsen run faster for the 3000 meters this past weekend than he would have wearing pre-2019 track spikes? All the research points to an answer of "yes." The mystery, however, is "How much faster?"

Endurance can be increased greater than speed through doping. Without doping distance times would be little different today from the '70's and '80's.