Kerr and Hocker have 800m PBs of 1:45, Nuguse and Jakob have PBs of 1:46. So either Jakob is a doping super responder or 800m times aren't as relevant to 1500m performance as the great genius Armstrong seems to think it is.
Kerr and Hocker have 800m PBs of 1:45, Nuguse and Jakob have PBs of 1:46. So either Jakob is a doping super responder or 800m times aren't as relevant to 1500m performance as the great genius Armstrong seems to think it is.
Ingebrigtsen is one of the slowest over 800 but your point merely reinforces what I have been saying, that doping compensates for relative lack of speed by greatly increasing stamina. However we also see that those above with the quicker 800 times have a faster finish than Jakob.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell. They were faster than him, as their 800 times showed. But they didn't have what he and others use today.
He already has surpassed them by some margin. Ingebrigtsen already is within the top 5 distance runners in history (without any doubt in top 10). Elliott and Snell can't be ranked that high.
Of course you didn't understand what I was saying. You can go back to sleep now.
Kerr and Hocker have 800m PBs of 1:45, Nuguse and Jakob have PBs of 1:46. So either Jakob is a doping super responder or 800m times aren't as relevant to 1500m performance as the great genius Armstrong seems to think it is.
Ingebrigtsen is one of the slowest over 800 but your point merely reinforces what I have been saying, that doping compensates for relative lack of speed by greatly increasing stamina. However we also see that those above with the quicker 800 times have a faster finish than Jakob.
A one second difference in PB means absolutely nothing in terms of 1500m performance. Kessler has a 1:43 PB, where was he in the final? Laros 1:44, Gourley 1:44, Cheruiyot 1:43, where did they finish?
I guess the whole discussion boils down to: can better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs) increase performance more than EPO?
I am in the yes, yes it can camp, you are obviously not. That's fine.
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
1) All athletes, including dopers can of course copy the training, recovery, tech, nutrients etc, but they can't dope like they did in the 90s, they'd get caught. Sure, you might micro dose, but that's it.
As I already said in my original post, I am sure someone with even better genetics using the same scientific approach as Jakob has done since pre-teens will come along soon enough.
Also: People act like Jakob is the only one that run fast these days, but time wise we are already in a golden era as far as the strength of the field is concerned in almost all running diciplines.
Let's not forget in the same race yesterday Aregawi ran 7:21, the world's 3rd fast time of all time.
I have no reason to believe he is doped. Do you?
Also, the records have been falling in the 5k and the amount of people running sub 3:30 have just exploded compared to previous eras.
2) Sounds fast, but I wouldn't rule it out, as the developments in training, shoes, reccovery, nutrition, wave lights etc would apply to dopers as well.
Hypothetical however, as they'd be glowing like a light bulb and get caught.
He already has surpassed them by some margin. Ingebrigtsen already is within the top 5 distance runners in history (without any doubt in top 10). Elliott and Snell can't be ranked that high.
Of course you didn't understand what I was saying. You can go back to sleep now.
Says the guy who frequently posts at 1, 2, 3, 4 a.m. (his local time).
Your fixation on Jakob's 800m speed is beyond ridiculous.
But hey! Over 200 posts in 48h! Whatever makes your sleepless nights more eventful!
Ingebrigtsen is one of the slowest over 800 but your point merely reinforces what I have been saying, that doping compensates for relative lack of speed by greatly increasing stamina. However we also see that those above with the quicker 800 times have a faster finish than Jakob.
A one second difference in PB means absolutely nothing in terms of 1500m performance. Kessler has a 1:43 PB, where was he in the final? Laros 1:44, Gourley 1:44, Cheruiyot 1:43, where did they finish?
No, no! The great Fartstronglivs is always right! Facts mean nothing!
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
1) Because they have tests for EPO now, which didn't exist when Komen ran, which limits them to microdosing at best while Komen could go full throttle.
2) I doubt it helps elite athletes that much.
General population are clueless when it comes to estimating the efficacy of doping. It depends a lot on the person but with using EPO the effect in 3k is ranges from 0 seconds to 10 seconds. Some people don't have any discernible impact from EPO (for example 3 month usage period), most people get a small but clearly measurable benefit and some are extreme responders and can gain 10s.
He already has surpassed them by some margin. Ingebrigtsen already is within the top 5 distance runners in history (without any doubt in top 10). Elliott and Snell can't be ranked that high.
Of course you didn't understand what I was saying. You can go back to sleep now.
You have written that Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell have been. That's wrong, he has surpassed them by some margin. 800m speed isn't the only measure, Dumb.
Another gold in 2028 in the 10000m and a WR in the 5k, and Ingebrigtsen is the greatest distance runner in history.
Despite Gebrselassie, Bekele, Kipchoge or El Guerrouj. Snell and Elliott are not in contention here.
We need to stop talking about the 800 lol. Jakob has never focused on the 800 and could surely run slightly better if he did. He’s a mid-d/distance guy and doesn’t need to waste time proving what his max 800 is
1) Because they have tests for EPO now, which didn't exist when Komen ran, which limits them to microdosing at best while Komen could go full throttle.
2) I doubt it helps elite athletes that much.
1) Ashenden has shown that one can still safely use 20 if not 30 IU/kg. So about half of the good old standard dosages, not exactly "micro". Plus blood transfusions of course are still undetectable - look at the recent blood doping cases with their respective values in the DT/CAS reports to see with how much manipulation athletes get away with (and with how much they don't) - scary stuff in there.
2) My source was for elite athletes. Blood doping only, but ok, full throttle blood doping. Schumacher even estimated up to 1 minute for elite 10k runners.
If Ingebrigtsen and Komen had been running in identical weather conditions, with identical shoes, on identical tracks, with identical pacing, who would have produced a better performance? We can only guess. But for those who are skeptical of the influence that the track spike technology introduced in 2019 (following on distance shoe technological revolutions introduced in 2016), there have been several studies that have attempted to investigate the effects of new track spike technology (especially the carbon fiber plates) on performance.
New research led by the University of Massachusetts Amherst shows that super spikes, scientifically described as advanced footwear technology (AFT) spikes, can give runners about a 2% edge in middle-distance track races, like...
This is the newest report, coming out just before the Olympics, on July 29, 2024. It is from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
All of the above investigations demonstrated that the effect of the superspikes on performance is real, but quantifying it remains challenging, especially because effects vary from one name brand to the next and from one athlete to the next.
The following is not a research paper but rather a summary article that explains some of the reasons for why superspikes do indeed improve performances.
Did Ingebrigtsen run faster for the 3000 meters this past weekend than he would have wearing pre-2019 track spikes? All the research points to an answer of "yes." The mystery, however, is "How much faster?"
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