Deano, part of being a great athlete is availability. "Of course" he didn't accomplish X, Y and Z is explanatory but doesn't add to Coe's greatness, it detracts from it. We were evaluating Coe vs. Kipketer, and Coe getting sick, injured, or feeling crushing pressure in Moscow, not running enough high-level 800s to prepare, these are merely excuses.
What did the two accomplish, how many important races did they run and win, records set and how did they perform with the chips down. That is greatness. Coe as a total middle distance runner is awesome, but at the 800 he is not on Kipketer's level.
Well said. Coe in my opinion is the 3rd best 1500 runner all-time behind El Guerrouj and Morceli, and the 4th best 800 runner all-time behind Rudisha, Snell and Kipketer = 3rd best MD runner behind El Guerrouj and Rudisha. That’s pretty, pretty, pretty good.
Middle distance is from 800m to the Mile and that's exactly the spectrum where Coe achieved his success. With his unique sequence of world records in all four middle distances for me he undoubtedly is the greatesd middle distance runner in history. But in a ranking for all of distance running El Guerrouj is ahead for me and Rudisha slightly behind.
Remember when this was a Jakob Ingebrigtsen thread and not three old guys lying about Seb Coe?
Mods should delete all posts made by lovers of King Charles who make no reference to J.I.'s past performances or future 1500m performances. Do mods think advertisers like a few Brits coming on here posting under multiple handles turning every 800m & 1500m discussion into a S. Coe/S. Ovett/S. Cram discussion?
Jesus, you even have to play the race card in a simple discussion as to whether Jakob has peaked or not? Don't you honestly think racism is a serious issue that shouldn't be trivialized just to score points on a freaking running forum?
You need to educate yourself. When someone says something is not black and white, it has a different meaning than race. Please use google or phone a friend to use this as an opportunity to learn something.
This just shows how dishonest you are. You actually capitalized BLACK and WHITE. Of course you were playing on the 'coevett is a racist' idea that the Jama Aden shills have spread here.
JI is definitely the greatest middle distance runner of all times in Europe, but running 3:25 is most likely too much to ask for.
This is incorrect. Sebastian Coe was 2x Olympic Champ at 1500m, 2x Olympic silver at 800m, plus held the WR at both distances.
Mo Farah had about 6-8 years of dominating including twice doubling at 5k/10k.
Jakob is the best Norwegian distance runner of all time though.
For those asking how this thread got turned into a thread about Coe, it was 'Lollys Master' claim on the 2nd page that Jakob was 'the greatest middle distance runner of all times in Europe'.
You need to educate yourself. When someone says something is not black and white, it has a different meaning than race. Please use google or phone a friend to use this as an opportunity to learn something.
This just shows how dishonest you are. You actually capitalized BLACK and WHITE. Of course you were playing on the 'coevett is a racist' idea that the Jama Aden shills have spread here.
OK so you are NOT a racist. Why do you think the WHITE runner is superior to the BLACK runner? Do you think it is genetics or work ethic or what?
This is incorrect. Sebastian Coe was 2x Olympic Champ at 1500m, 2x Olympic silver at 800m, plus held the WR at both distances.
Mo Farah had about 6-8 years of dominating including twice doubling at 5k/10k.
Jakob is the best Norwegian distance runner of all time though.
For those asking how this thread got turned into a thread about Coe, it was 'Lollys Master' claim on the 2nd page that Jakob was 'the greatest middle distance runner of all times in Europe'.
It all kicked off after that.
It would have happened anyway because a few of you cannot help inserting your idols into any discussion, as you nostalgically remember a time when you felt important because you felt you vaguely resembled your hero at least in terms of nationality or pigment so you felt all was right with the world.
This just shows how dishonest you are. You actually capitalized BLACK and WHITE. Of course you were playing on the 'coevett is a racist' idea that the Jama Aden shills have spread here.
OK so you are NOT a racist. Why do you think the WHITE runner is superior to the BLACK runner? Do you think it is genetics or work ethic or what?
He is a racist. And he thinks other people need to spread that idea, that his history of posting is not clear enough.
(Also, Elliott and Ryun's world marks were bigger outliers than Coe's 800m record).
No, they weren't.
They lasted just a few years and went down deeply one decade later.
Coe with 1:41.73 is still the =3rd performer ever - over 41 years after he has set the mark. At the time he was 1.71 seconds ahead of the next fastest, something like 3.4 seconds in the 1500m. It's the biggest outlier in mens middle and long distance running ever.
So how did Kipketer make several failed attempts on the WR in 97 before crushing it?
March: two world indoor records- still 1 second ahead of next fastest 25 years later
June: Rome/Paris/Lausanne 1:43/44/42 in terrible weather conditions
July: Stockholm 1:41.73 in good weather condition
World Championships
August: bang bang bang
during the full season he was in the form to run very close to or under Coe's mark, in Zürich he clearly could have run sub 1:41
Yes, of course.
And Coe only had one attempt in 1981. He wasn't even planning to attack the WR, it was supposed to be a tuneup for a proper attempt at Oslo later. It was a rubbish track even by the standards of 1981. The 800m didn't start until 11 pm because of delays. Coe followed Konchellah who wasn't even a pacemaker (he finished 4th I think), and had to go round him.
Give Coe 6 or 7 tries in 1981 and he would have ran under 1:41.
No, you're cherry picking by taking those names out. BTW, slight error on my part - it was 4/10 best Kenyan 800m runners 2017/2018 suspended under anti-doping offences.
Coevett, this is what I assume you are doing: Taking two 1500m runners (who ran a spot 800) and going with the bottom 4 from the top 10 list. The top 6 of course have no bans and all are still competing.
Here are the actual best Kenyan runners of 2017-18 (by time): 1. Emmanuel Korir 2. Wycliffe Kinyamal 3. Michael Saruni 4. Jonathan Kitilit 5. Ferguson Rotich 6. Cornelius Tuwei 7. Kipyegon Bett (banned ~ drugs) 8. Elijah Manangoi (1500m runner 2-year ban in 2019 ~ whereabouts) 9. Alfred Kipketer (2-year ban in 2020 ~ whereabouts) 10. Asbel Kiprop (1500m runner ~ EPO ban)
If you make it Africa instead of just Kenya, the top 11 looks like this : 1. Emmanuel Korir
2. Nijel Amos (suspended for SARM bust) 3. Wycliffe Kinyamal 4. Michael Saruni 5. Jonathan Kitilit 6. Ferguson Rotich 7. Cornelius Tuwei 8. Kipyegon Bett (banned ~ EPO ban) 9. Elijah Manangoi (800/1500m runner 2-year ban in 2019 ~ whereabouts) 10. Alfred Kipketer (2-year ban in 2020 ~ whereabouts) 11. Asbel Kiprop (800/1500m runner ~ EPO ban)
Note also that Fergeson Rotich was a training partner of Bett.
You might be interested by some of Nijel Amos’ training partners
You might be shocked and dismayed to learn that one of Rotich/Bett's coach's female junior athletes was busted at age 17, and then dropped dead a couple of years later, AND he still coaches top juniors in Kenya.
You might be interested by some of Nijel Amos’ training partners
You might be shocked and dismayed to learn that one of Rotich/Bett's coach's female junior athletes was busted at age 17, and then dropped dead a couple of years later, AND he still coaches top juniors in Kenya.
Or maybe you're not.
I am SHOCKED that someone who dropped dead is still coaching top juniors in Kenya apparently after a gender transition.