WTF SERIOUSLY: Lornah Salpeter just ran 2:19:46 Prague ein

Armstronglivs wrote:

To say 5% doping would be widespread, as you do, is...

To be consistent with another recent thread, I could have said 12%.

The point is that "widespread" can mean different things to different people.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Russia "was not banned for doping but failing to anti-dope"? That's like saying ...

Russia would not have been banned, if the ARAF had timely enforced the bans as instructed by the IAAF, instead of extorting the athletes, and other obstructive acts, like swapping or destroying samples, etc. to avoid detection of doping positives.

It is the state organized "obstruction of justice" that led to the WADA-IC recommendation of the national ban, not the large number of positive results.

This seems like an important thing to understand in light of the often repeated calls to ban Kenya. So long as AK and ADAK are diligently enforcing anti-doping bans, it is not a high rate of busts that will lead to a comprehensive national ban.

Simiilarly, a lack of OOC blood testing is not necessarily a doping problem, but an anti-doping problem.

Have you heard about the new state of the art accredited-WADA lab in Nairobi? (PLK). They went operational last fall and will analyze 800 - 1000 samples per year though the CEO said PLK has the capability of doing a 1000 a day! They'll do sampling not only for Kenya but Ethiopia, Uganda & Tanzania.

There has already been 3 Kenyans in just the last 3 months provisionally suspended for an ABP violation from this lab! (including Chepchirchir & Keptum).

I think things are about to get very interesting in East Africa.

https://youtu.be/BrpapItMi8w

What? An Indian female runner popped for doping? I didn't think India had any female T&F athletes?

She just won gold in the 800 at last month's Asian Athletics Championships:

https://www.deccanherald.com/sports/other-sports/gomathi-tested-positive-734966.html

https://www.thehindu.com/sport/athletics/gomathi-marimuthu-fails-dope-test-twice/article27199210.ece

India of all places?

What's next? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iran?

This is very weird wrote:

What? An Indian female runner popped for doping? I didn't think India had any female T&F athletes?

She just won gold in the 800 at last month's Asian Athletics Championships:

India of all places?

What's next? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iran?

You have not been paying attention. India has a large number of doping positives. Most (as this one) are for steroids.

india has lots of female athletes.in the tamil nadu state championships alone,there are usually about 6 heats for senior women in the 100 meters.track and field has really grown there.a lot of their elites also seem to get popped for steroid use.

This thread has gotten all of topic....Lornah Salpeter is the subject of the thread. A brief detour from the subject is fine; however, the last numerous post have been totally off the original subject posted.

VIPAM wrote:

This thread has gotten all of topic....Lornah Salpeter is the subject of the thread. A brief detour from the subject is fine; however, the last numerous post have been totally off the original subject posted.

I would argue that an Indian doping 10000m runner is still two thirds on topic.

trollism wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

This thread has gotten all of topic....Lornah Salpeter is the subject of the thread. A brief detour from the subject is fine; however, the last numerous post have been totally off the original subject posted.

I would argue that an Indian doping 10000m runner is still two thirds on topic.

Spot the racist.

VIPAM wrote:

This thread has gotten all of topic....Lornah Salpeter is the subject of the thread. A brief detour from the subject is fine; however, the last numerous post have been totally off the original subject posted.

I have previously expressed my scepticism about the extent of improvement in women's marathon times (I believe much the same about the men, but that is another topic), but when we are increasingly seeing the bust of top women runners, such as the marathon gold and silver medallists in Rio, it must raise questions about performances by other women that are now even faster.

Salpeter has come from nowhere in the last 3 years, improving over 20 minutes in that time to record sub-2.20 in her latest efforts. There is no reason to think she has reached her limit. She is now faster than the gold and silver medallists at Rio, who have now been shown to be doped. Like them, she comes from a country (while representing another) with serious doping issues. So why would she be clean, if slower runners of better competitive pedigree aren't? It's a question not just for her, but for the sport generally.

Yes, but their anti-doping wouldn't be seen to be inadequate if it wasn't for the fact their doping was through the roof. The two are directly related. Vigorous anti-doping produces less doping. The fundamental question that faced Russia was that their doping was endemic - and systemic - so what were they doing to address it, and the answer was - virtually nothing. So lack of compliance produced a ban. Correspondingly, with Kenya, a lack of OOC blood tests is only a problem if there is a high incidence of doping - which there has been. The change in their testing regime is welcome and now netting quite a few - but not all - of the cheats.

Armstronglivs wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

This thread has gotten all of topic....Lornah Salpeter is the subject of the thread. A brief detour from the subject is fine; however, the last numerous post have been totally off the original subject posted.

I have previously expressed my scepticism about the extent of improvement in women's marathon times (I believe much the same about the men, but that is another topic), but when we are increasingly seeing the bust of top women runners, such as the marathon gold and silver medallists in Rio, it must raise questions about performances by other women that are now even faster.

That's a great point though rekrunner may think it's just a coincidence. I don't think many people can fully understand the implications of the both the gold and silver medalist of an Olympic race being dopers from basically the same country which has a deep seeded root of PED use. Factor in sub-2:20 marathoners Jeptoo & Chepchirchir (very fast for a female) all caught for doping and a suspicious pattern starts to develope. It reminds me of the women's 800m final at the London Olympics where two Russian dopers took gold & bronze. No one seems to have a problem believing that the vast majority of Russian women runners are doped but yet the Kenyan women marathoners are getting a free pass?

They were banned, not for doing virtually nothing -- on the contrary, they were quite active -- but for their highly proactive interference with anti-doping. A doping problem is not an anti-doping problem.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Yes, but their anti-doping wouldn't be seen to be inadequate if it wasn't for the fact their doping was through the roof. The two are directly related. Vigorous anti-doping produces less doping. The fundamental question that faced Russia was that their doping was endemic - and systemic - so what were they doing to address it, and the answer was - virtually nothing. So lack of compliance produced a ban. Correspondingly, with Kenya, a lack of OOC blood tests is only a problem if there is a high incidence of doping - which there has been. The change in their testing regime is welcome and now netting quite a few - but not all - of the cheats.

If an anti-doping problem is not a doping problem, in what country has there been high levels of doping despite vigorous anti-doping?

This is very weird wrote:

What? An Indian female runner popped for doping? I didn't think India had any female T&F athletes?

She just won gold in the 800 at last month's Asian Athletics Championships:

https://www.deccanherald.com/sports/other-sports/gomathi-tested-positive-734966.htmlhttps://www.thehindu.com/sport/athletics/gomathi-marimuthu-fails-dope-test-twice/article27199210.ece

India of all places?

What's next? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iran?

Sri Lanka or perhaps Nepal and their coaches will tell us EPO doesn't work for them.

Subway Surfers wrote:

This is very weird wrote:

What? An Indian female runner popped for doping? I didn't think India had any female T&F athletes?

She just won gold in the 800 at last month's Asian Athletics Championships:

https://www.deccanherald.com/sports/other-sports/gomathi-tested-positive-734966.htmlhttps://www.thehindu.com/sport/athletics/gomathi-marimuthu-fails-dope-test-twice/article27199210.ece

India of all places?

What's next? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iran?

Sri Lanka or perhaps Nepal and their coaches will tell us EPO doesn't work for them.

Who mentioned Iran?

Hot off the press:

Not vigorous, but simply compliant: Spain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Italy, USA.

Armstronglivs wrote:

If an anti-doping problem is not a doping problem, in what country has there been high levels of doping despite vigorous anti-doping?

rekrunner wrote:

Not vigorous, but simply compliant: Spain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Italy, USA.

To be precise: currently deemed compliant.

not really wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Not vigorous, but simply compliant: Spain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Italy, USA.

To be precise: currently deemed compliant.

Compliant is not the same as vigorously anti-doping. While sports bodies continue to police themselves the bar is set pretty low.

No one else was talking about "vigorously anti-doping".

Armstronglivs wrote:

not really wrote:

To be precise: currently deemed compliant.

Compliant is not the same as vigorously anti-doping. While sports bodies continue to police themselves the bar is set pretty low.