A closer look at EPO-era performances

rekrunner wrote:

OK not last post.

These are very different -- going sub-27:00 is not the same as a winning the Tour de France.

Will We Ever Know? wrote:

Geez...I don't know. No different then why did we have to wait until 2014, post-ABP, for Vincenzo Nibali to become the first Italian to win the Tour de France since Marco Pantani's win in 1998?

Perhaps we had to wait 17 years for Nike to work out a way to circumvent USADA? Perhaps all Nike HQ needed all along was a passionate kissing excuse? ?

You do realize that Solinsky (basically a rugby player) running sub 27 is one of the most remarkable things I have ever heard & seen?

rekrunner wrote:

Ah right. I noticed at the time that Moen was not in the list I took (last updated: 11/18/2017 15:17:26).

I stand corrected now. Try this:

Why did we have to wait until 2018, for the first non-African "record eligible" sub-2:06, 19 years after Khalid Khannouchi?

casual obsever wrote:

Actually, we are not waiting any more, because one did "go train in remote places" and won and ran sub-2:06.

Hmmm. Not unlike the first non-African woman running sub-2:18.

But yes, probably another two of the many coincidences here.

It turns out that the American Record of 2:05:38 from the year 2002 is still held by... the MOROCCAN DOPER Khalid Khannouchi.

Ouch.

What a joke.

rekrunner wrote:

OK not last post.

What a surprise.

All you doper apologists crack me up. And you will never stop.

I hope for your sake that you are only trolling around.

Blah.blah.blah.com wrote:

It turns out that the American Record of 2:05:38 from the year 2002 is still held by... the MOROCCAN DOPER Khalid Khannouchi.

Ouch.

What a joke.

And the 5000m European record is still held by the MOROCCAN DOPER Mohammed Mourhit.

What a joke indeed.

Just about every European record is now held byeither African born athletes, or dopers, sometimes both.

100m Francis Obikwelu (Portugal - born Nigeria)

200m Pietro Mennea (Italy, (admitted doping?))

400m Thomas Schönlebe (East Germany - nuff said)

800m Wilson Kipketer (Denmark - Kenyan born and bred)

1500m Mo Farah (GB - Somalian born - huge whiff of doping scandel)

5000m Mohammed Mourhit (Belgium - confirmed Moroccan born EPO cheat)

10000m Mo Farah (GB - Somalian born - huge whiff of doping scandel)

Until last month when Sondre Moen broke it, the European Marathon record holder was Kaan Kigen Özbilen - a Kenyan runner competing for Turkey.

If Sondre Moen is clean, then he's almost certainly the only clean European owner of a European record in any of the men's Olympic distances.

Oh boy.

Who still holds the European record for the 1 hour run:

One hour 20944 m Jos Hermens Netherlands 1 May 1976 Arnhem, Netherlands

ha ha ha

The European record list for women also looks like a TOTAL JOKE:

100 m 10.73 Christine Arron France 19 August 1998 Budapest, Hungary

200 m 21.63 Dafne Schippers Netherlands 28 August 2015 World Championships China Beijing, China [

400 m 47.60 Marita Koch East Germany 6 October 1985 World Cup Canberra, Australia [9]

800 m 1:53.28 Jarmila Kratochvílová Czechoslovakia 26 July 1983 Munich, West Germany

1000 m 2:28.98 Svetlana Masterkova Russia 23 August 1996 Memorial Van Damme Brussels, Belgium

1500 m 3:52.47 Tatyana Kazankina Soviet Union 13 August 1980 Weltklasse Zürich Zürich, Switzerland

Mile run 4:12.56 Svetlana Masterkova Russia 14 August 1996 Weltklasse Zürich Zürich, Switzerland

2000 m 5:25.36 Sonia O'Sullivan Ireland 8 July 1994 Edinburgh, United Kingdom

3000 m 8:21.42 Gabriela Szabo Romania 19 July 2002 Herculis Monaco

Two miles 9:17.40+ Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 20 June 2004 European Cup Bydgoszcz, Poland

5000 m 14:23.75 Liliya Shobukhova (banned for DOPING) Russia 19 July 2008 Kazan, Russia

10000 m 29:56.34 Elvan Abeylegesse (baned for DOPING, this time should be removed from the record list, which makes Paula Radcliffe the new record holder with her 30:01) Turkey 15 August 2008 Olympic Games Beijing, China [29]

10 km (road) 30:21 mx Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 23 February 2003 San Juan, Puerto Rico

15 km (road) 46:59+ Lornah Kiplagat Netherlands 14 October 2007 World Road Running Championships Udine, Italy

46:41+ a # Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 21 September 2003 Newcastle-South Shields, United Kingdom

One hour 18084 m Silvana Cruciata Italy 4 May 1981 Rome, Italy

20000 m (track) 1:06:55.5 Rosa Mota Portugal 14 May 1983 Lisbon, Portugal

20 km (road) 1:02:57+ Lornah Kiplagat Netherlands 14 October 2007 World Road Running Championships Udine, Italy

1:02:21+ a # est Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 21 September 2003 Newcastle-South Shields, United Kingdom

Half marathon 1:06:25 Lornah Kiplagat (co-owner of HATC in Kenya where EPO was found) Netherlands 14 October 2007 World Road Running Championships Udine, Italy [10]

1:05:39.6 a # Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 21 September 2003 Newcastle-South Shields, United Kingdom

25000 m (track) 1:28:22.6 Helena Javornik Slovenia 19 July 2006 Maribor, Slovenia

25 km (road) 1:22:47+ Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 14 August 2005 Finland Helsinki, Finland

1:21:31+ mx X # Constantina Diţă-Tomescu Romania 22 October 2006 Chicago Marathon Chicago, United States

1:22:08+ mx X Liliya Shobukhova Russia 9 October 2011 Chicago Marathon Chicago, United States [30]

1:20:36+ mx a # Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 13 April 2003 London Marathon London, United Kingdom

30000 m (track) 1:47:05.6 Karolina Szabo Hungary 22 April 1988 Budapest, Hungary

30 km (road) 1:39:22 Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 14 August 2005 Finland Helsinki, Finland

1:37:27+ mx # Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 17 April 2005 London Marathon London, United Kingdom

1:38:23+ mx X Liliya Shobukhova Russia 9 October 2011 Chicago Marathon Chicago, United States [31]

1:36:36+ mx a # Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 13 April 2003 London Marathon London, United Kingdom

Marathon 2:15:25 mx Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 13 April 2003 London Marathon United Kingdom London, United Kingdom

100 km 7:10:32 Tatyana Zhyrkova Russia 11 September 2004 Netherlands Winschoten, Netherlands

3000 m steeplechase 8:58.81 Gulnara Samitova-Galkina Russia 17 August 2008 Olympic Games Beijing, China

100 m hurdles 12.21 (+0.7 m/s) Yordanka Donkova Bulgaria 20 August 1988 Bulgaria Stara Zagora, Bulgaria

400 m hurdles 52.34 Yuliya Pechonkina Russia 8 August 2003 Russia Tula, Russia

High jump 2.09 m Stefka Kostadinova Bulgaria 30 August 1987 World Championships Italy Rome, Italy

Pole vault 5.06 m Yelena Isinbayeva Russia 28 August 2009 Weltklasse Zürich Switzerland Zürich, Switzerland

Long jump 7.52 m (+1.4 m/s) Galina Chistyakova Soviet Union 11 June 1988 Soviet Union Leningrad, Soviet Union

Triple jump 15.50 m (+0.9 m/s) Inessa Kravets Ukraine 10 August 1995 World Championships Gothenburg, Sweden

Shot put 22.63 m Natalya Lisovskaya Soviet Union 7 June 1987 Moscow, Soviet Union

Discus throw 76.80 m Gabriele Reinsch East Germany 9 July 1988 Neubrandenburg, East Germany

The European Record list for women = European DOPING LIST for women

Ouch.

Coevett wrote:

And the 5000m European record is still held by the MOROCCAN DOPER Mohammed Mourhit.

What a joke indeed.

Mourhit's rapid rise and performance jump to sub-13 territory has been pointed out to Gary many times before as evidence of significant improvement with O2-vector doping, and in this particular case rEPO.

Mourhit went from 13:46 to 13:05 in one year! (96/97), and 13:06 to his European record & *25th* all-time fastest of 12:49.71 in two years! (98/00). Upon returning back to competition after serving a 2 yr ban, Mourhit never ran anything close to sub-13 ever again.

Gary refuses to acknowledged this classic case having said historically that other factors were involved other than doping in his rapid & significant performance improvement . ? I say this is a classic case of a high-responder to rEPO.

Coevett wrote:

If Sondre Moen is clean, then he's almost certainly the only clean European owner of a European record in any of the men's Olympic distances.

Agreed.

Doubt that Sondre is clean after spending half a year in Kenya and improving by several minutes on that level.

The women's list is almost worse. What a joke.

rekrunner wrote:

Spain, a subset of "5 continents", known for it's ability to abuse EPO and perform,

What the heck are you conflating here? Every single Spanish distance running record from 800m through to the marathon (with the exception of the highly popular and very frequently run 2000m and 20000m on the track) was set after the introduction of EPO. Spanish distance running post 1990 is practically a case study of the improvements EPO can give in a numerically declining population of serious distance runners.

Two things:

1) Nanny state activists will fry me for this one, but Area/Continental records should belong to people born there or they have to have resided there prior to say their 16th birthday, solves the issue.

2) Moen was a 28:20, 62, 2:12 man, moves to Kenya gets tested in blood twice in 12 months before he goes on a 27:55 (road), 59, 2:05 spree and his last OFF score was 103 from 85 just before all this occurred. Though he might be clean.

25K European Record:

1:22:47+ Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 14 August 2005 Finland Helsinki, Finland

30K European Record:

1:39:22 Paula Radcliffe Great Britain 14 August 2005 Finland Helsinki, Finland

Paula's European records at 25K and 30K were set during her 2:20:57 WINNING TIME at the 2005 World Championships when PAULA FINALLY WON HER GOLD MEDAL...on August 14, 2005.

It turns out that on Aug. 5, 2005, which was the day before the 10000m final, Paula had a normal OFF score of 92...

...which had a very large increase of 19.42% in ONLY 24 HOURS to an OFF SCORE OF 109.87 on Aug. 6, 2005, which is way above the limit for an athlete at sea level who had an OFF score 24 hours earlier of only 92.

Paula's hemoglobin value of 15.1 g/dL was also ABOVE NORMAL RANGE for a female, which is the equivalent of 16.1 g/dL in a male.

Paula also had a recticulocyte score of 0.47% (of RBCs) which is BELOW NORMAL RANGE...AT THE SAME TIME... that she had a hemoglobin value which increased by a very large amount in only 24 hours... to an ABOVE NORMAL RANGE value for a female of 15.1 g/dL.

Why did that happen???

Answer:

1) Ms. Paula Radcliffe (Brit-Doper-Cheater-Liar-Fraud™) did another autologous blood transfusion at the 2005 World Championships...in addition to the autologous blood transfusion that she did at the 2003 World Championship Half-Marathon which she won...and possibly also at her World Record 2 :15:25 marathon.

Paula said that she had samples frozen from the 2003 World Record at London and would release them to prove that she ran clean. She never released ANY blood test results. The only blood test results ever released for Paula Radcliffe were leaked.

Ms. Paula Radcliffe's OFF score gradually decreased from the autologous blood transfusion to an OFF score of 102 on Aug. 14 , when she WON WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MARATHON GOLD...and set European records for 25K and 30K on the road at the same time.

It is just a Coincidental Synchronicity™.

rekrunner wrote:

Genzebe Dibaba: 3:50.07 2.0%

Wang Junxia: 8:06.11 3.9%

Paula Radcliffe: 2:15:25 5.3%

Honestly, I am still laughing that the case of Gary's wife single-handedly destroys his whole "argument" about the non-African "lack" of improvement. Well, there are others too, like Baumann etc., but her performance even stands out compared to Genzebe and Junxia!

rekrunner wrote:

The idea that "Everybody dopes (up to 57%)" (note I specifically said "up to 57%" twice in the first two posts) comes, again not from me, nor you, but from recent surveys on World Champion participants (29-44%) and Pan Arab Games participants (44-57%).

Why do you keep downplaying the high prevalence of doping? Rhetorical question, we all know why.

The surveys resulted in, I cite:

"The estimated prevalence of past-year doping was 43.6% (95% confidence interval 39.4–47.9) at WCA and 57.1% (52.4–61.8) at PAG. "

And the authors explain why these numbers are most likely underestimated...

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Perhaps we had to wait 17 years for Nike to work out a way to circumvent USADA? Perhaps all Nike HQ needed all along was a passionate kissing excuse? ?

You do realize that Solinsky (basically a rugby player) running sub 27 is one of the most remarkable things I have ever heard & seen?

Solinsky is a beast; tallest and heaviest Sub-27 man in history:

Purdy tables all time performances by equivalent times:

1) Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood tests) GBR = 3000m 7:59.8, 5000m 13:52, 10000m 29:03, Marathon 2:15:25

2) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH = 3000m 8:04.0, 5000m 13:59, 10000m 29:17

3) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:06.11, 14:03, 29:25

4) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:07.1, 14:05, 29:31

5) Vivian Cheruyiot KENYA = 8:07.5, 14:06, 29:32

6) Tirunesh Dibaba (at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) ETH =8:07.9, 14:11, 29:42

7) Meseret Defar (on leaked Atypical ABP list) = 8:11.8, 14:12.8, 29:47

8) Qu Yunxia CHINA (1993)= 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

9) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

10) Qu Yunxia CHINA (1993) = 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

11) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH = 8:12.8, 14:14, 29:50

12) Genzebe Dibaba (also at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) = 8:13.1, 14:15, 29:52

13) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH =8:13.6, 14:16, 29:54

14) Meseret Defar (on leaked Atypical ABP list) ETH= 8:13.8, 14:16, 29:54

15) Tirunesh Dibaba (at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) ETH = 8:13.8, 14:16, 29:54

16) Elvan Abeylegesse (former Ethiopian running for Turkey, banned for DOPING) = 8:14.3, 14:17, 29:56

It is just a coincidence.

spanish stats wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Spain, a subset of "5 continents", known for it's ability to abuse EPO and perform,

What the heck are you conflating here? Every single Spanish distance running record from 800m through to the marathon (with the exception of the highly popular and very frequently run 2000m and 20000m on the track) was set after the introduction of EPO. Spanish distance running post 1990 is practically a case study of the improvements EPO can give in a numerically declining population of serious distance runners.

Gary R doesn't care because they didn't run fast enough. Though he might give some notice to Cacho's 3:28.95, which 41st all-time and fastest non-African 1500m.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Two things:

1) Nanny state activists will fry me for this one, but Area/Continental records should belong to people born there or they have to have resided there prior to say their 16th birthday, solves the issue.

2) Moen was a 28:20, 62, 2:12 man, moves to Kenya gets tested in blood twice in 12 months before he goes on a 27:55 (road), 59, 2:05 spree and his last OFF score was 103 from 85 just before all this occurred. Though he might be clean.

Interesting subject on Moen - there's a whole thread on it with none another than Gary hitting it pretty hard (imagine that. Lol).

Purdy tables all-time performances by equivalent times:

1) Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood tests) GBR = 3000m 7:59.8, 5000m 13:52, 10000m 29:03, Marathon 2:15:25

2) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH = 3000m 8:04.0, 5000m 13:59, 10000m 29:17

3) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:06.11, 14:03, 29:25

4) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:07.1, 14:05, 29:31

5) Vivian Cheruyiot KENYA = 8:07.5, 14:06, 29:32

6) Tirunesh Dibaba (at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) ETH =8:07.9, 14:11, 29:42

7) Meseret Defar (on leaked Atypical ABP list) = 8:11.8, 14:12.8, 29:47

8) Qu Yunxia CHINA (1993)= 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

9) Wang Junxia CHINA (1993) = 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

10) Qu Yunxia CHINA (1993) = 8:12, 14:13, 29:47

11) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH = 8:12.8, 14:14, 29:50

12) Genzebe Dibaba (also at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) = 8:13.1, 14:15, 29:52

13) Almaz Ayana (managed by Jos Hermens) ETH =8:13.6, 14:16, 29:54

14) Meseret Defar (on leaked Atypical ABP list) ETH= 8:13.8, 14:16, 29:54

15) Tirunesh Dibaba (at Sabadell, Spain EPO hotel) ETH = 8:13.8, 14:16, 29:54

16) Elvan Abeylegesse (former Ethiopian running for Turkey, banned for DOPING) = 8:14.3, 14:17, 29:56

It is just a coincidence.

Top 11 all-time marathon times for women:

1 2:15:25 Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood tests, 21.88% increase in Hb in 2 days in 2003, 16.2 g/dL Hb level in 2012)

2 2:17:01 Mary Keitany (on leaked Fancy Bears Atypical ABP blood test result with follow up testing list)

3 2:17:18 Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood test results)

4 2:17:42 Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood test results)

5 2:17:56 Tirunesh Dibaba (bad luck, she was at the Sabadell Spain hotel with Genzebe and Jama during EPO raid)

6 2:18:20 Liliya Shobukhova (banned for doping with EPO, adverse ABP)

7 2:18:31 Tirunesh Dibaba (bad luck she was at the EPO raid in Sabadell)

8 2:18:37 Mary Keitany (Atypical ABP blood test result on Fancy Bears leaked list)

9 2:18:47 Catherine N'dereba....set in 2001. No ABP at the time.

10 2:18:56 Paula Radcliffe (multiple suspicious blood tests)

11 2:18:57a Rita Jeptoo (banned for doping with EPO)

The 2016 Olympic Marathon gold medalist Jemima Sumgong (and former training partner of Rita Jeptoo) has also been banned for doping with EPO.

No cross-country skiers with [Hb] values above 16.0 g/dL for women (Ms. Paula Radcliffe was over this level with her 16.2 g/dL Hb value in her 2012 out-of-competition test in Monte Carlo Monaco) or 17.5 g/dL for men, respectively, may start in competitions (in 2001). Track and Field did not start their ABP until 2009...eight years later.

Liliya Shobukhova and Paula Radcliffe were both allowed to compete at the 2012 Olympic marathon...even after having absolutely ridiculous results on their hemoglobin values in their blood tests.

Liliya Shobukhova had a hemoglobin value of 16.9 g/dL and her hematocrit value was 51% when she had her 135 OFF score.

Multiply the Hb value of Ms. Paula Radclliffe by 3x to get a rough estimate of her Hct value = 48.6% .

The cutoff limit in cycling when a cyclist was banned from competition "for health reasons" was a 50% hematocrit for men and 47% for women. Less than 1% of pro cyclists were ever banned from competition for going over the cutoff limit.

Ms. Paula Radcliffe would of been banned from competition in CROSS-COUNTRY SKIING AND PRO CYCLING.

Why?

Answer:

1) Because Ms. Paula Radcliffe's HEMOGLOBIN VALUE WAS "HIGHLY ABNORMAL"........AGAIN.

The normal range for hemoglobin values is 12.0 to 15.0 g/dL for women and 13.0 to 16.0 g/dL for men.

Men have normal hemoglobin values which are about 1.0 g/dL higher than women...except for Ms. Paula Radcliffe.

Paula's Hb values:

1) 15.6 g/dL with a 2.8 g/dl increase (=21.88%) in ONLY 2 DAYS in the year 2003... is the equivalent of 16.6 g/dL in a man!!!

2) 15.1 g/dL with an OFF score increase from 92 to 109.87 in ONLY 1 DAY at the 2005 World Champs...is the equivalent of 16.1 g/dL in a man!!!

3) 16.2 g/dL in an OOC test at Monte Carlo, Monaco on Feb. 7, 2012...is the equivalent of 17.2 g/dL in a man!!!... WOW!!!

The actual leaked values for Ms. Paula Radcliffe range from VERY SUSPICIOUS to ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

Paula's explanation of altitude does not work for her 2005 World Championship blood tests because she had a 19.4% increase in OFF score from 92 to 109.87 in only 1 DAY. Altitude training takes 3 to 6 weeks to increase hemoglobin levels.

Paula's explanation of dehydration causing hemoconcentration also does not work for her 2005 WC blood test results.

Severe dehydration after running for 2.5 to 3 hours, with a loss of 4% of bodyweight, can increase hemoglobin values by a maximum of 10 to 15%.

Paula only ran for 30 minutes in a 10000m race on Aug. 6, 2005...and her OFF score increased by 19.4% from 92 to 109.87!

Paula ran for 2 hours 20 minutes and 57 seconds when she won the 2005 WC Marathon Gold on Aug. 14, 2005, which should cause a lot more dehydration and hemoconcentration (with a HIGHER OFF score) than after running for only 30 minutes in a 10000m race on Aug. 6, 2005.

Paula's OFF score after winning the 2005 WC Marathon Gold medal on Aug. 14, 2005 was 102, which was a 7.2% LOWER OFF score than when she only ran for 30 minutes in the 10000m on Aug. 6, 2005.

Whoops again.

ha ha ha

In conclusion:

1) Ms. Paula Radcliffe is a Brit-Doper-Cheater-Liar-Fraud™.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/im-no-drug-cheat-cries-devastated-radcliffe-gfm0990fhff

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/75A2/production/_85441103_thetimes090915pg1.jpg

It is not a big surprise.

ha ha ha

If you want me to one day be quiet, you should stop mis-stating my conclusions. It only compels me to want to correct for the record.

m!ndweak wrote:

EPO AND PEDs DONT WORK, ...

Huh?

keep posting wrote:

...doper apologists...