David Epstein/Pro Publica/BBC Story: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules

Almost Entirely Obvious wrote:

You talking to me? Because mine is the post you responded to.

So, you talking to me? Because if you are I'm going to feel obliged to make you feel like an idiot.

You talking to me?

No. Your post happened to be the most recent one on the board at the time I posted. I don't use threaded view, so I'm not attentive to individual discussions within overall threads. Sorry for the confusion.

I agree. Jerry's boys are the clean faces of American distance running.

As Wejo recently asked, we all now know how Galen competes with those guys in the 10k. He takes banned substances. Go home Galen. Hayward Field was better without you. #PreLives #Pre'sHouse

I hate being pessimistic, but none of this surprised me. I've increasingly started to see the sport we all love through a lens of doping and shady measures to achieve an advantage. NOP has always given me the creeps as well, not a fan/media friendly program to market Track and Field.

Mary Cain leaving days before all this is surely not a coincidence either!

Sleuth says the following.

Jerry joined Salazar in June 2007 (after Salazar's heart attack) with Teg, Solinsky and Jäger

Interview in the report was in Portland.

I believe that Solinsky is no longer in Portland.

This leaves Teg and Jäger.

Given that Jäger was just a freshman, my guess is that it's Teg.

All other athletes that were with Salazar at the time (including Goucher) have now retired (except Rupp of course), so they would be ok in being identified. Teg has not retired yet, so he would have an issue with being recognized.

I say Teg with90% confidence.

TUE tuesday?

Kara Goucher has zero moral base. She greedily gobbled up every dime that nike ever threw at her. She did this with full knowledge of the organized doping program at NOPe and nike.

The same goes for Lauren. Where was her yakkety yak mouth when she was pocketing the dirty nike money?

rojo and wejo, how do you feel now that you have spent years cowering away from asking sleazy and rupp and radcliffe the tough questions? It was simple: "Yes or no. Have you ever used any PED?"

Please replace Jer with Jager.

Huge if true

Let's just have a bit of a perspective.

First off, Kara and Adam Goucher were nike sponsored athletes (kara for 7 yrs), were extremely well compensated and didn't say one thing during those years. Now the best she can do is bring up some pretty lame anecdotes (Galen was really tired near the end of the season and then he runs a great race a few weeks later - that's absolutely overwhelming evidence - NOT. AlSal made a comment about Tyler Hamilton that I took a certain way - even more underwhelming). Then the picture of the Cytomel that AlSal "gave" Kara. That's proof of what? Shoot, the handwriting doesn't even look that close to the hand writing from the check for shipping expenses (and we all know what shipping expenses really mean). Not an expert, but play one on LRC, and notice how the "5s" aren't close, the "e's" are all in cursive on the check and all printed on bottle, etc.

Second, Magness supposedly had access to all the training info and the only "proof" he can offer is a picture "purportedly" of Rupp's chart from 2002???!!

*** Why would Magness, who worked at NOP for approx 2 yrs (2010-2012ish) not have pictures/evidence to document 2010-2012 doping. And in a much more compelling way. Are we to believe NOP kept meticulous records (I mean the picture of a "record" from 2002) and Magness had access but he couldn't come up with anything better?

*** Magness didn't say or show anything like this when he left NOP.

Basically this story repackages a lot of old speculation and adds a few new allegations with flimsy evidence and not a lot of questioning nor challenge to the supposed "evidence." And not much other than the individuals "love of sport" as to their motivations (love that at least in the case of the Gouchers, if we are to believe them, wasn't so true for 7 or so years while taking millions from nike - and remember everything was honky dory until after Kara had the baby).

There may be issues related to doping at NOP but this story doesn't advance that perspective very much IMO.[/quote]

This^

Maybe I am just a stats person...but that graph and info are from 2002-07. We already knew Galen had a TUE from those years. This is probably the reason for no discussion. As I noted as well and I agree, the Gouchers are trying to look like Angels and supposedly there is this culture of 'drugs' and they are just very diplomatic/regal and above it. There is no evidence recently of these things and we already know Salazar is being proactive and smart about things. He is seeking guidance before doing something. This is not like Lance outright doping. This is about identifying the doping line, straddling it, and then crossing over it for a moment and then coming back.

I am sorry, not only is this story old news, it brings no credible evidence from any anti-doping agency as in the Lance Armstrong case. Is there anything new from 2013 on? If not, Magness already talked to WADA/USADA. Many of the comments are just heresay and people maybe not even knowing what truly is illegal or if something had already been consulted with WADA/USADA for use.

I agree, Pre would be outspoken about this and he would be right. Salazar's approach of as long as they ok it or as long as it is not banned currently mentality is not what seems pure about running or racing. I much prefer people who seem to be doing it cleanly, but during these times it doesn't seem like many are. What runner is not on a 'supplement'?

The real question is why does Nike have a medical lab if it's not to cheat? They sell shoes, they are not doctors.

As a fan of track and field and distance running, here's my take: we don't need the Nike Oregon Project any longer. The principles on which it was founded no longer apply. Your average US track/distance running fan appreciates how competitive the sport is on a worldwide basis -- we cheer for some Kenyans, we cheer for some Jamaicans, and we even cheer for some Americans who have never won a major medal. The idea that the US needs to bring home these medals no longer applies -- we can appreciate a great performance and hard work, even if it's not quite good enough.

The sad reality is that Galen's 10000m silver medal is probably the most important distance medal we've won in the 21st century, and Galen continues to be one of the least-loved US track stars. Do we (the fans) want medals? Of course. But not with all of this baggage. I was probably more excited about Symmonds' 5th place finish in London than Galen's silver.

Being a member of Alberto's group is now detrimental to a US distance runner's long term prospects. I like Centro, but I'd like him more if he were out of there. Same with every woman there -- Mary Cain would be well-served to take her talents to any other coach in the country. At a minimum, I bet all of this ends the flow of young talent to NOP. The fuse was just lit.

@MikeM. Who do you think you are, Ken G. or Alberto S.?

Michael Machiorlatti - Professor of Business and Econ at OCCC and current phd student (4th year) in Biostat at OUHSC. What about you?

They have a lab to make sure everything is okay. This type of testing by coaches or companies should be banned by WADA.

Dr Frankensteen wrote:

The real question is why does Nike have a medical lab if it's not to cheat? They sell shoes, they are not doctors.

Vuyvgybggyb wrote:

Interview in the report was in Portland.

I say Teg with90% confidence.

I missed that the interview was in Portland. Rohatinsky lives in SLC, so he is out.

Teg is definitely the most likely candidate. Travis Tygart please call Matt Tegenkamp. Save our sport. Everyone else in the know should step up and do the right thing too.

This story makes me wonder if Alberto's heart attack was a result of self-experimentation with PEDs.

Engineer and Architect with a PhD earned 20 years ado. Self-employed making $250k per year.

.....Jerry joined the group in the fall of 2008 after the OG in China.

DPL wrote:

This story makes me wonder if Alberto's heart attack was a result of self-experimentation with PEDs.

It is time for Salazar to retire. He is making decisions to establish his personal legacy, and doesn't seem to care about the welfare and health of the athletes under his charge,