You Can Run But You Can't Hide Malmo - More And More People Know The Truth About You

Malmo, Bob Sevene knew everything that was going on then. Around 1986 (right before Drenth passed).

Why doesn't anybody with the knowledge make it public? I imagine there will be lawsuits and lawyers involved. Or people don't want to implicate themselves.

Tyler Hamilton wrote a scathing book only after he was busted and Lance Armstong at the same time was going down.

I would love to see a expose of the NOP and clear the air and see how much prescription medications these athletes are on. Its probably not public record.

I wonder if Salazar and Rono suffered from hypothyroidism. Maybe I did too.

Malmo, Link - I'm not sure what the fear is. All this was a long time ago and attitudes (and even rules) have changed. You're small players in a small sport; why not just tell it straight? Look - when I was in high school in the 80's it was "known" that many players on our football team were using steroids. It was pretty obvious given their size and their behavior. Did I actually witness anything? No. But I knew - we all knew. In fact, it wasn't even that big of a deal to many and was an open secret around the school. (Which, by the way, I have to laugh at the argument that So-an-so isn't using since they've been that good since high school).

Most of us "have no skin in the game" - but we love running, we love the culture and the history. "Cleaning up the sport" is a relative thing, as rules evolve and change, but I think we are all interested in what went on back in the day, and how it's influenced today's programs. So be frank.

Speaking of Jeff Drenth. Has there been any clear explanation about why he passed away?

Scott57 wrote:

Speaking of Jeff Drenth. Has there been any clear explanation about why he passed away?

It seems not. See

for a good article on Drenth's life and untimely passing. Here's the relevant bit regarding cause of death:

Mystery still surrounds Jeff’s sudden death. Dr. Edward Wilson, the Lane County medical examiner at the time, ruled Jeff’s death as a heart rhythm disturbance, supported by Jeff’s prior history of arrhythmia, commonly known as an irregular heartbeat. However, Jeff’s cause of death remains unknown. His death certificate only states Jeff died of “natural causes.”

An article in the June 16, 1986 issue of Sports Illustrated said, “an autopsy showed that Jeff’s brain, lungs and heart were in perfect health. His heart was large and had been capable of sustaining 215 beats per minute, remarkable even among distance runners. Its stark absence of damage seemed to suggest an electrical malfunction, which leaves no telltale clot or ruptured vessel.”

On a related note, I've never understood why more hasn't been made of the sudden and unexplained death of Kenenisa Bekele's fiancee in 2005. See

http://www.ethiomedia.com/newpress/kenenisa_alem_techale_story.html

for an article that raises a lot of disturbing questions. Regarding cause of death in that case:

Alem Techale was expected to be the next great distance talent off the Ethiopian production line. Two years ago, she won the world youth title at 1500m. In three months’ time, she was to marry her boyfriend, Kenenisa Bekele, probably the greatest distance runner of the moment, who has an Olympic gold medal and world records at 5,000m and 10,000m to prove it.

The couple were out for a run in Ararat, a forest in a hilly area on the outskirts of Addis Ababa, on Tuesday morning when Techale collapsed. Bekele carried her to his car, but she died before they managed to get to hospital.

Her death has been ascribed in some reports to a heart attack, although despite the sudden circumstances of her demise, no postmortem was conducted before her burial on Wednesday - as autopsies remain uncommon, even among the Addis Ababa elite.

Thus, no-one will ever know the real cause of death of an otherwise apparently fit and healthy young woman.

break it up wrote:

Why doesn't anybody with the knowledge make it public? I imagine there will be lawsuits and lawyers involved. Or people don't want to implicate themselves.

Tyler Hamilton wrote a scathing book only after he was busted and Lance Armstong at the same time was going down.

I would love to see a expose of the NOP and clear the air and see how much prescription medications these athletes are on. Its probably not public record.

Looks like Jeff Novitzky'a got bigger fish to fry right now:

But I'd love to see Novitzky set up shop in Portland/Beaveton. I don't think any "powers" particularly care about what went on in 1980, but if anyone has something beyond circumstantial about what's going on now (Victor Conte seems to have some contacts, so maybe others do as well) Novitzky is where the info should go. There probably needs to be something along the lines of what USADA dug up regarding Lance.

break it up wrote:

I wonder if Salazar and Rono suffered from hypothyroidism. Maybe I did too.

Rono!?!?! Henry has used two drugs in his life. Alcohol (To excess) and running.

malmo wrote:

I didn't hear about anything more until 1985 when I happened to be at that local pub when Togher gave an impromptu clinic over beers.

I haven't been reading all the posts, too many, but is this the only reference to Togher? I would think there is a lot more to see concerning how his athletes improved so quickly, considering his questionable background back in Scotland. I also question how much of his influence went beyond his throwers....Second hand information, but reliable, tells me he had a pretty big bag of tricks. He did love to talk over many bottle of beer, for sure.

Malmo--

While reading through this thread, a recurring theme of your posts has been your opinion that those not directly involved in whatever this is, "have no skin in the game."

Bullcrap.

Anybody who does athletics has "skin in the game", whether it is the present, past, or future of athletics.

In fact, because the USATF is inextricably linked with government/treaty/agreement/IAAF/IOC, every citizen has "skin in the game".

But especially athletes. Your continuing attempts to dispose of posters who want everything made public by saying that they "have no skin in the game" are without substance.

I do not question your judgment regarding disclosure, but I do reject your stated reason for marginalizing the views of those other posters who do question it.

Please find another justification that is supportable.

malmo, firstly, thanks for being open and honest and answering my earlier questions. I will get to those in a moment.

But first, let's look at the quote of the day on letsrun:

Letsrun writes: " LetsRun.com has always thought there should be a misdemeanor/felony distinction in doping as well as intentional/unintentional and intentional felony doping should 100% result in a lifetime ban."

This is commenting on the view of Professor Trevor Hall, the 1972 Penn Relays LJ champion, that states (as I understand it) that intentional steroid use is a flagrant violation of sports rules, and much worse than an accidental stimulant violation. Correct?

So I'd REALLY like LetsRun to weigh in on this: are you stating that malmo should have received a "life time ban" for his clearly "intentional steroid use"?? This seems harsh, considering his short usage period, admitting to it, etc, etc. However, letsrun does not make these distinctions. This is typical of brojos/letsrun: they take a very had stance on drug use in general, but then hem and haw when it involved friends or people they just plain like.

So brojo's, care to weigh in on this?? This is your site, this is your friend, this is YOUR stance on PED use ("lifetime ban..." for intentional steroid use) ? Well, what are the exceptions to this hard line??

Ok. I finally read this thread and am back up to speed.

1) People figured out how to impersonate \"A Duck\". While this was going on we tried to ban the imposter. We banned the real \"A Duck\" as well in this process by mistake

2) We have stopped the impersonators and now I believe \"A Duck\" will start posting again. He wanted me to post this explanation on why he\'s been gone.

3) I just read all the deleted posts on this thread as well. Yes malmo can delete posts in this thread and there is an inherent conflict of interest. However having said that, the vast majority of the posts deleted were about people complaining about their posts being deleted. I restored a few posts but overall did not have problems with the moderation of this thread.

4) Malmo does not have the ability to ban anyone.

5) If you have any information on AW drug usage or non usage feel free to email me directly at

wejo@letsrun.com

. Confidentiality guaranteed. I would like to get to the bottom of this as well in particular in regards to Mary Slaney.

6) In regards to a lifetime ban for felony drug users, I think that is a good idea. Having said that a) if you cooperate with the authorities or b) voluntarily admit your crimes then I would advocate a lesser ban. Malmo definitely did b).

Malmo came clean early and good for him. He has a conscience. He is trying to promote a clean sport. There's no need to vilify him. You could plead what he did to driving with an expired license plate. There are so many others that that are taking the opposite approach. A Duck just needs to stop the protagonist propagandizing, because it's backfiring. Just leave it be. End thread/.

1) Computer experts will always find a way to impersonate someone. It's a game for people who are bored. 2) A Duck would be smart to keep away from this thread.3) Malmo would be smart to keep away from this thread.The moderation has been excessive, looking at it from this side LRC. It does not make the mod look good in any possible way. 4) Malmo seems to be able to ban IP addresses. Is that considered different from banning posting nics?5) Because of way this thread has been handled you might have some difficulty convincing people about confidentiality. Your intents might be good, but trust has to be built, and the editing of this thread is not consistent with trust.6) You said "lifetime ban for felony drug users." You need to use a word other than felony. Felony would apply to intent to distribute illegal drugs. Athletes would typically be regarded as drug users.

wejo wrote:

5) If you have any information on AW drug usage or non usage feel free to email me directly at

wejo@letsrun.com

. Confidentiality guaranteed. I would like to get to the bottom of this as well in particular in regards to Mary Slaney.

This sums it up pretty well.

"With the evidentiary procedure established, the Tribunal continued to consider whether Slaney had committed a doping offense.   The Tribunal noted that the IAAF had established that both of Slaney's specimens had been analyzed as having T/E ratios significantly higher than 6:1.   The tribunal also observed that Slaney's longitudinal study revealed a previous T/E ratio high of 3:1;  meaning that her present ratio, by the most modest of calculations, was more than three times greater than she had ever previously tested.   Thus the burden was shifted to Slaney to produce a valid explanation for the findings.   The Tribunal noted that Slaney had produced no evidence, let alone that of a clear and convincing nature, to prove that her elevated ratio was the result of pathological or physiological factors.   Since Slaney had withdrawn from the proceedings, and refused to tender her medical records to the Tribunal, the panel was forced to conclude under the burden-shifting procedure it had outlined that Slaney was guilty of a doping offense on June 17, 1996."

Sagarin wrote: because it's backfiring. Just leave it be. End thread/.

Actually not the end of thread. A Duck woke me up and like Eddy Lee once said, "I will not rest until I accomplish my goal". Look, there are dozens and dozens of people who were involved at AW, most of them not dirty (I think), but as i found out within the last two months, two AW runners, whom I never suspected were outed by a close friend of theirs. There was a guy who once posted on this message board who was on AW, said he was never on drugs, and had never even heard about ANYONE who was on drugs when he lived in Eugene. Problem is, he was at the 19th Cafe when Stewert Togher gave the impromptu clinic, and he was the 3rd person in the room the very next day when I learned about the specifics of Dr Smulovitz. Get this---none of the information being presented to me was new to him! Busted. He hasn't been heard from since then.

The next step for me is to take a complete inventory of everyone who was part of AW. Both athletes and coaches. Which years they were there. Which ones spent time in Eugene and let them speak for themselves. Are they going to say that Dick Brown was making shit up on the Ben Johnson documentary? Bob Sevene making shit up? Laurie Strasser made shit up in "Swoosh..." I'm making sh1t up? Everyone's lying ... except for the liars, right? There is a conspiracy by the self-appointed Praetorian Guard like A Duck who have no interest in uncovering the truth.

In 1984 when the USOC/TAC gave a heads-up to all of those failed drug tests then destroyed the evidence, does anyone really believe that the failed tests were from athletes randomly distributed throughout the country, or do you think there was a heavy concentration in two places - LA and Eugene? In all of my years I've never heard about doping scandals in Boston, Michigan, DC, Florida, Boulder, Seattle, Albuquerque (OK Albubu is a bad example). Why?

Trollist the First wrote: " The Tribunal noted that Slaney had produced no evidence, let alone that of a clear and convincing nature, to prove that her elevated ratio was the result of pathological or physiological factors.   Since Slaney had withdrawn from the proceedings,...

Providing "proof" of this nature is pretty much impossible. I don't know whether Slaney did anything intentionally or not. I only know that requirements of the "proof" will change as "evidence" is provided. More "proof" will almost always be required. It can become a never ending game.

You really are 'duck shit'. People know who he is and people know that he has been open about exactly what happened and what did not happen. However, you seemed to be convinced that you know essentially more in terms of the implications than you have any basis for posting.

I am one of what is probably a growing number of posters who think that it is time for the owners of the board to yank your access.

Our editorial on the front page yesterday -

- wouldn't apply to past drug usage. We are talking about moving forward. The culture in the sport is much different than ti was 10 years ago let alone 30 in the 1980s. Up until recently, doping was often state sponsored and the authorities basically looked the other way. The incentive to dope was much different.

The culture of the sport is now clearly 100% against it. Back then it was almost for it. One of the things were are proudest of about letsrun is trying to change the culture and attitude about doping.

To further this change, I'd be willing to give immmunity to anyone and everyone who admitted to doping up until say about 2005. The people back then faced a much different choice than the ones now. Plus many of the people super high up in the sport right now or famous because of their participation in the sport were likely dopers.

-Rojo.

Additionally, let's say Malmo had tested positive but hadn't admitted it. He could say his food had been spiked and he'd have gotten a 2 year ban, not lifetime. That's unless they did the isotope test which I bet didn't exist back then.

The lifetime ban would only be given out in cases where there is no other explanation or where records indicate someone doped. For a voluntary confession? We'd have a different set of penalties.

rojo wrote:

The culture of the sport is now clearly 100% against it. Back then it was almost for it.

Uh Rojo, you were barely out of diapers back then. We were not for it, we were against it. Some of us would have loved to have out-of-competition testing. A lot of them wouldn't. They know who they are. There have been a lot of former AW athletes who have participated in Letsrun threads, but have gone silent on this one. Hopefully they will stand up and be counted, and offer information about the biggest organized doping scheme in US track and field history. If they want to keep it off radar for awhile they can email me at [firstnamelastname]@verizon.net

Just do it.