True. Juantorena didn’t start running until he was around 20/21, and was a pure sprinter for several years. Cooper has never trained as a pure sprinter.
Ask yourself why.
45000 !
That's historical.
Yes, ask yourself: why?
When you started your project some years ago, have you just thought this could be possible?
Why do I get downvoted for saying the same thing. His 1:42 is the 4th fastest American 800m of all-time and 4:06 probably isn’t in the top 2000.
First, he hasn’t run a mile since being 1:42 guy so it’s not an equivalent comparison.
Secondly, he would be ranked a lot lower at 400 than his 800 ranking as well.
Lastly, It’s not which event is best event, it’s what is his potential in off events.
Most of us to seem think he can the best ever, or on a short list, at 800m. But we think he can be world class at 1500m given the talent he’s shown.
“Lastly, It’s not which event is best event, it’s what is his potential in off events.”
Exactly. His potential in the 1500m is not nearly as good as it is in the 800m and no change in training will make him world class at the longer distances.
Running other events isn't "doubling". It is winning other events at that same level.
As an 800 Olympic champion Tom Courtney was running 46 flat for the 400 in 1956. So is it supposed to be fast today?
What was he running the 800 in? Again an old fart you incessantly bring up. In the here-and-now, Lutkenhaus ran quite fast for a 16-year-old running a 400 in his second race of the day. Reasonable people believe he will run faster. Unreasonable people like yourself bring up what athletes in the 1950s ran 70 years ago at age 22-23 to compare to him like his career is over and not just starting. Id imagine if you were an NBA fan after Victor Wembanyamas rookie year you’d be blabbing about how Manute Bol was his ceiling and Ralph Sampson was his comp as a basketball player.
That’s how that works. You can’t use him to prove your point but then ignore him as comp when it invalidates another argument.
a comp is comp
It doesn't invalidate my argument. Wilson has run 44.1 out of blocks. His 43.9 relay doesn't show that a flying start is only worth .2 of a sec, it only shows it wasn't his fastest over the distance as it converts to 44.7. He has run much faster than that. Lutkenhaus's 45.3 relay leg converts to 46.1. So far he has run no faster over the distance, as his pr remains 46.3.
Wilson is finding improvements are getting harder to come by. That is typical of age prodigies. Lutkenhaus may experience the same.
Wow, you’re still here listening to yourself talk.
Improvements are going to be harder to come by??!! Hmmm, and here I thought that CL was going to drop 2.5 sec this year off his 1:42.2 PR, lol.
CL’s 200/400 PRs remain 22.12/46.3 because he hasn’t run them. Those times don’t match up by the way and he hasn’t run the 200 since age 15, all lost on you of course.
The title of this thread is like nails on a chalkboard to the bitterly jealous mind of Armstronglivs.
I can't be jealous of what he hasn't done and may never do.
You are insanely jealous. Because you have accomplished nothing in life and he has a world title. Which you try to belittle. You also hate him because he’s an American.
You think you’re providing a gotcha asking another poster if he’s aked himself why wasn’t Cooper ever trained as a pure sprinter, proving yourself even more of a gobshi*e. As a 12 year old he idolized his older brother Andy who was an excellent 800m runner, clocking 1:50+ as a senior in HS and Cooper decided he wanted to be an 800m runner, among other sports he was competing in. Cooper’s leg speed has surprised everyone from the start because of this.
You are very jealous of what he has done and mired in depression simply because a 17 year old with great talent has a lot of potential to do damage on the world stage. Will he? Likely yes. Even if he improves very little he will be a 1:41 runner. That gives you cheat pains. Pack it in.
First, he hasn’t run a mile since being 1:42 guy so it’s not an equivalent comparison.
Secondly, he would be ranked a lot lower at 400 than his 800 ranking as well.
Lastly, It’s not which event is best event, it’s what is his potential in off events.
Most of us to seem think he can the best ever, or on a short list, at 800m. But we think he can be world class at 1500m given the talent he’s shown.
“Lastly, It’s not which event is best event, it’s what is his potential in off events.”
Exactly. His potential in the 1500m is not nearly as good as it is in the 800m and no change in training will make him world class at the longer distances.
Running other events isn't "doubling". It is winning other events at that same level.
As an 800 Olympic champion Tom Courtney was running 46 flat for the 400 in 1956. So is it supposed to be fast today?
What was he running the 800 in? Again an old fart you incessantly bring up. In the here-and-now, Lutkenhaus ran quite fast for a 16-year-old running a 400 in his second race of the day. Reasonable people believe he will run faster. Unreasonable people like yourself bring up what athletes in the 1950s ran 70 years ago at age 22-23 to compare to him like his career is over and not just starting. Id imagine if you were an NBA fan after Victor Wembanyamas rookie year you’d be blabbing about how Manute Bol was his ceiling and Ralph Sampson was his comp as a basketball player.
How can an 800 runner today double in the 400 if he is no faster over that distance than an athlete competing 70 years ago?
What you think he will run remains in your imagination.
It doesn't invalidate my argument. Wilson has run 44.1 out of blocks. His 43.9 relay doesn't show that a flying start is only worth .2 of a sec, it only shows it wasn't his fastest over the distance as it converts to 44.7. He has run much faster than that. Lutkenhaus's 45.3 relay leg converts to 46.1. So far he has run no faster over the distance, as his pr remains 46.3.
Wilson is finding improvements are getting harder to come by. That is typical of age prodigies. Lutkenhaus may experience the same.
Wow, you’re still here listening to yourself talk.
Improvements are going to be harder to come by??!! Hmmm, and here I thought that CL was going to drop 2.5 sec this year off his 1:42.2 PR, lol.
CL’s 200/400 PRs remain 22.12/46.3 because he hasn’t run them. Those times don’t match up by the way and he hasn’t run the 200 since age 15, all lost on you of course.
If I'm only listening to myself why are you and most others responding to my posts?
That he hasn't improved his sprint times for the 200/400 tends to confirm my point that improvements are getting harder to come by. He has often raced over the 400 and we see he is running 200 in training.
I can't be jealous of what he hasn't done and may never do.
You are insanely jealous. Because you have accomplished nothing in life and he has a world title. Which you try to belittle. You also hate him because he’s an American.
You think you’re providing a gotcha asking another poster if he’s aked himself why wasn’t Cooper ever trained as a pure sprinter, proving yourself even more of a gobshi*e. As a 12 year old he idolized his older brother Andy who was an excellent 800m runner, clocking 1:50+ as a senior in HS and Cooper decided he wanted to be an 800m runner, among other sports he was competing in. Cooper’s leg speed has surprised everyone from the start because of this.
You are very jealous of what he has done and mired in depression simply because a 17 year old with great talent has a lot of potential to do damage on the world stage. Will he? Likely yes. Even if he improves very little he will be a 1:41 runner. That gives you cheat pains. Pack it in.
You have nothing but personal attacks so I have nothing to respond to.
This is a thread about what Lutkenhaus might achieve over the 400 and the 1500. So far none of his performances over those distances are world class and there is nothing being offered here that shows he can be world class over those distances.
But, like Rudisha and Kipketer, it may not matter if he is good enough over his specialty distance.
You are insanely jealous. Because you have accomplished nothing in life and he has a world title. Which you try to belittle. You also hate him because he’s an American.
You think you’re providing a gotcha asking another poster if he’s aked himself why wasn’t Cooper ever trained as a pure sprinter, proving yourself even more of a gobshi*e. As a 12 year old he idolized his older brother Andy who was an excellent 800m runner, clocking 1:50+ as a senior in HS and Cooper decided he wanted to be an 800m runner, among other sports he was competing in. Cooper’s leg speed has surprised everyone from the start because of this.
You are very jealous of what he has done and mired in depression simply because a 17 year old with great talent has a lot of potential to do damage on the world stage. Will he? Likely yes. Even if he improves very little he will be a 1:41 runner. That gives you cheat pains. Pack it in.
You have nothing but personal attacks so I have nothing to respond to.
You can’t answer me because I listed facts. Same as you have sone with others. Cooper hasn’t run a 200m in two full years for example. That’s significant, so you ignore it. Cooper no longer competes for his HS team, so he’s no longer helping the scramble for points. There’s a lot of things he may not do ever again. He’s obviously faster than he was at 15.
When you can’t refute, when trapped, you ignore and scream about being personally attacked when that is all you do. Someone noted it appeared as if your posts are nothing less than you practicing pilpul. They’re likely right. Go ahead, prepare two pages of laments and personal attacks. You’ve alreaddy been exposed. Many times.
Lutkenhaus has no more 400/1500 potential than Wanyonyi or Arop.
End of thread.
Wanyonyi probably has more over the 1500.
So what if he does? That isn’t the point. He’s not Cooper. We don’t even know what Wanyonyi’s true potential is because he’s coached by Claudio Berardelli who currently has six athletes under suspension for PED use. Berardelli is so sketchy he has testing equipment installed at his “camp” so he can check constantly to try and avoid the odd chance of being caught via a real drug test.
You have nothing but personal attacks so I have nothing to respond to.
You can’t answer me because I listed facts. Same as you have sone with others. Cooper hasn’t run a 200m in two full years for example. That’s significant, so you ignore it. Cooper no longer competes for his HS team, so he’s no longer helping the scramble for points. There’s a lot of things he may not do ever again. He’s obviously faster than he was at 15.
When you can’t refute, when trapped, you ignore and scream about being personally attacked when that is all you do. Someone noted it appeared as if your posts are nothing less than you practicing pilpul. They’re likely right. Go ahead, prepare two pages of laments and personal attacks. You’ve alreaddy been exposed. Many times.
You and others have noted Cooper hasn’t raced at 200m since March of ‘24. That race is on Cooper’s YT channel, the weather was not favorable. Armstronglivs glosses over it because he trapped himself, so he just screeches that Cooper hasn’t improved in two years. He brings up Courtney who was running 200m races all the time in college and post college. Cooper has raced zero times over 200m the past two years. Zero. Armstronglivs ignores it becauae it shows how wrong he is on many things. As usual.
Courtney’s best one lap was 45.8 at age 23. Cooper’s last 400m race was last May, at 16, second race of a double, third race in 24 hours. He ran 46.03. Armstronglivs ignores that. When it’s pointed out Coe’s best open 400, as an adult, was 46.8 he then deflects to relay legs, where Coe’s best is 45.5 or 45.7 depending on the source. Coe was 24. Cooper’s fastest relay leg is 45.3 with electronic timing. Again, he was 16 when he ran that. His third race of the meet.
Cooper’s ultimate potential in the 400 it he dedicates a series of races to it is likely 44.8 - 45.5. Could be faster, possibly, but he is not focused on the event, nor should he be. He seems to have a distinct lack of interest in the 1500m, and given his joy over being able to skip cross country at the start of his junior year in HS, we may never see him put much into it.
Armstronglivs can bring up Courtney, Kerr, and Snell all he wants, comparing their PRs at 22 - 25 to Cooper’s at ages 15 - 16. Cooper is already leagues beyond them at 800m, which in the end is what really counts.
Cooper is all in at 800m and Armstronglivs is praying to Lucifer and Ranginui to derail Cooper’s current trajectory.
You can’t answer me because I listed facts. Same as you have sone with others. Cooper hasn’t run a 200m in two full years for example. That’s significant, so you ignore it. Cooper no longer competes for his HS team, so he’s no longer helping the scramble for points. There’s a lot of things he may not do ever again. He’s obviously faster than he was at 15.
When you can’t refute, when trapped, you ignore and scream about being personally attacked when that is all you do. Someone noted it appeared as if your posts are nothing less than you practicing pilpul. They’re likely right. Go ahead, prepare two pages of laments and personal attacks. You’ve alreaddy been exposed. Many times.
You and others have noted Cooper hasn’t raced at 200m since March of ‘24. That race is on Cooper’s YT channel, the weather was not favorable. Armstronglivs glosses over it because he trapped himself, so he just screeches that Cooper hasn’t improved in two years. He brings up Courtney who was running 200m races all the time in college and post college. Cooper has raced zero times over 200m the past two years. Zero. Armstronglivs ignores it becauae it shows how wrong he is on many things. As usual.
Courtney’s best one lap was 45.8 at age 23. Cooper’s last 400m race was last May, at 16, second race of a double, third race in 24 hours. He ran 46.03. Armstronglivs ignores that. When it’s pointed out Coe’s best open 400, as an adult, was 46.8 he then deflects to relay legs, where Coe’s best is 45.5 or 45.7 depending on the source. Coe was 24. Cooper’s fastest relay leg is 45.3 with electronic timing. Again, he was 16 when he ran that. His third race of the meet.
Cooper’s ultimate potential in the 400 it he dedicates a series of races to it is likely 44.8 - 45.5. Could be faster, possibly, but he is not focused on the event, nor should he be. He seems to have a distinct lack of interest in the 1500m, and given his joy over being able to skip cross country at the start of his junior year in HS, we may never see him put much into it.
Armstronglivs can bring up Courtney, Kerr, and Snell all he wants, comparing their PRs at 22 - 25 to Cooper’s at ages 15 - 16. Cooper is already leagues beyond them at 800m, which in the end is what really counts.
Cooper is all in at 800m and Armstronglivs is praying to Lucifer and Ranginui to derail Cooper’s current trajectory.
Why would he need to run a series of 400m? If he’s in 1:41-42 shape, he’ll be ready to go.
You can’t answer me because I listed facts. Same as you have sone with others. Cooper hasn’t run a 200m in two full years for example. That’s significant, so you ignore it. Cooper no longer competes for his HS team, so he’s no longer helping the scramble for points. There’s a lot of things he may not do ever again. He’s obviously faster than he was at 15.
When you can’t refute, when trapped, you ignore and scream about being personally attacked when that is all you do. Someone noted it appeared as if your posts are nothing less than you practicing pilpul. They’re likely right. Go ahead, prepare two pages of laments and personal attacks. You’ve alreaddy been exposed. Many times.
You and others have noted Cooper hasn’t raced at 200m since March of ‘24. That race is on Cooper’s YT channel, the weather was not favorable. Armstronglivs glosses over it because he trapped himself, so he just screeches that Cooper hasn’t improved in two years. He brings up Courtney who was running 200m races all the time in college and post college. Cooper has raced zero times over 200m the past two years. Zero. Armstronglivs ignores it becauae it shows how wrong he is on many things. As usual.
Courtney’s best one lap was 45.8 at age 23. Cooper’s last 400m race was last May, at 16, second race of a double, third race in 24 hours. He ran 46.03. Armstronglivs ignores that. When it’s pointed out Coe’s best open 400, as an adult, was 46.8 he then deflects to relay legs, where Coe’s best is 45.5 or 45.7 depending on the source. Coe was 24. Cooper’s fastest relay leg is 45.3 with electronic timing. Again, he was 16 when he ran that. His third race of the meet.
Cooper’s ultimate potential in the 400 it he dedicates a series of races to it is likely 44.8 - 45.5. Could be faster, possibly, but he is not focused on the event, nor should he be. He seems to have a distinct lack of interest in the 1500m, and given his joy over being able to skip cross country at the start of his junior year in HS, we may never see him put much into it.
Armstronglivs can bring up Courtney, Kerr, and Snell all he wants, comparing their PRs at 22 - 25 to Cooper’s at ages 15 - 16. Cooper is already leagues beyond them at 800m, which in the end is what really counts.
Cooper is all in at 800m and Armstronglivs is praying to Lucifer and Ranginui to derail Cooper’s current trajectory.
Bingo. And even as we might all agree that the kid is very physically mature for his age, that does not mean he’s at his peak physical maturity. That is still 2-3 years off. To presume he won’t be faster at 19-20 over 200/400 than at age 15-16 is just myopic thinking.
This thread asked what his potential is, not what do a couple of stale and incomplete data points say about his current ability… CL has 21-flatish and 45, maybe 44.9, potential. Now, whether he ever takes his shot is another matter. And I don’t think he really cares about the 200 or he would’ve run one even last year.
You and others have noted Cooper hasn’t raced at 200m since March of ‘24. That race is on Cooper’s YT channel, the weather was not favorable. Armstronglivs glosses over it because he trapped himself, so he just screeches that Cooper hasn’t improved in two years. He brings up Courtney who was running 200m races all the time in college and post college. Cooper has raced zero times over 200m the past two years. Zero. Armstronglivs ignores it becauae it shows how wrong he is on many things. As usual.
Courtney’s best one lap was 45.8 at age 23. Cooper’s last 400m race was last May, at 16, second race of a double, third race in 24 hours. He ran 46.03. Armstronglivs ignores that. When it’s pointed out Coe’s best open 400, as an adult, was 46.8 he then deflects to relay legs, where Coe’s best is 45.5 or 45.7 depending on the source. Coe was 24. Cooper’s fastest relay leg is 45.3 with electronic timing. Again, he was 16 when he ran that. His third race of the meet.
Cooper’s ultimate potential in the 400 it he dedicates a series of races to it is likely 44.8 - 45.5. Could be faster, possibly, but he is not focused on the event, nor should he be. He seems to have a distinct lack of interest in the 1500m, and given his joy over being able to skip cross country at the start of his junior year in HS, we may never see him put much into it.
Armstronglivs can bring up Courtney, Kerr, and Snell all he wants, comparing their PRs at 22 - 25 to Cooper’s at ages 15 - 16. Cooper is already leagues beyond them at 800m, which in the end is what really counts.
Cooper is all in at 800m and Armstronglivs is praying to Lucifer and Ranginui to derail Cooper’s current trajectory.
Why would he need to run a series of 400m? If he’s in 1:41-42 shape, he’ll be ready to go.
You’ve never actually raced the 400, have you? He can’t just jump in and blast everyone. As a frosh and soph he was regularly racing 400m, usually as part of dobles or triples. He is no longer doing that. Sharpness is a real thing. He might produce a decent time in a one off, but it doesn’t replaced a few repeated efforts to get into the flow.