btw if you want to watch again or save it, here you go via NBC replay
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Khamis wrote:
LOL, very pithy statement there, thank darling!!!! It's true Jakob doesn't have raw power rather, it's not about speed. It's POWER!!!!!! And of course weak mind when he keeps losing major championship 1500m finals!!!!!!
Well, I don’t think Jakob would protest to your claim of him having a weak mind f.x a couple of times in the 1500m…-He himself has confessed to this in a least two championships. (Meaning poor tactics / execution in WC 2022 and OG 2024, and tactics clearly come from the mind). But maybe he could improve, and maybe it isn’t all that rare to do an error or two..?
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How far can I reach wrote:
I guess the whole discussion boils down to: can better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs) increase performance more than EPO?
I am in the yes, yes it can camp, you are obviously not. That's fine.
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
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know thy history wrote:
How far can I reach wrote:
I guess the whole discussion boils down to: can better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs) increase performance more than EPO?
I am in the yes, yes it can camp, you are obviously not. That's fine.
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
1) Because they have tests for EPO now, which didn't exist when Komen ran, which limits them to microdosing at best while Komen could go full throttle.
2) I doubt it helps elite athletes that much.
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Trollminator wrote:
Weak mind and not the best raw speed.
Well he didn’t seem to have a weak mind when he as a 17 years old won his first 1500m Euro champs, or his first OG 1500m (gold) despite being so nervous on the start line in the latter I ever have seen him. So don’t you think sometimes a bad tactics/ execution can be just that..?
And of course he as a strength guy doesn’t have the best raw speed. But maybe it isn’t all that bad for a 1500m+ guy -I watched his last 800m race from the tribune. -It was windy, and yes, he didn’t seem all that speedy. But neither did the two 1.44 flat guys that beat him with quite a small margin…
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Clearly, Ingebrigtsen didn't time his cycle right for Paris.
Well, he didn’t look too shabby in the 5000m…
This post was edited 47 seconds after it was posted.101 -
Dudes last 2k after running a k, was in the top 14 fastest ever run jesus
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Dumbstrongnrverdies wrote:
"championship speed" - I like it, really.
Championship speed is what they just ran in Paris - notwithstanding Jakob's apparent time-trialling from the gun.
Coe's "championship speed" for Dumb is 3:38.40.
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Dumbstrongnrverdies wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Most of Elliott's mile races were in the 3:57-59 region, Snell's times only a little faster (he ran the 1500 once in his career, in Tokyo, when he ran 3:38).
Agree. 3:57 was their maximum.
Still don't get it. But it doesn't matter whether it's 3:57 or faster, they wouldn't have expected a runner slower than them over the half mile to put two similar such mile times together. But then they didn't know what he would have available they didn't have.
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LarsL11 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I like that Ingebrigtsen is no faster than Tom Courtney was over 800 in the '50's yet can put two 1500's together at the same speed as Elliott and Snell ran one in the '60's. Powerful stuff!
I also like that Ingebrigtsen is a better runner than Elliot and Snell. Cant you make a post on how Kipchoge can't beat the 100m WR from the 30's yet somehow can string together 5000 records from the 40's or something like that? Powerful stuff!
Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell. They were faster than him, as their 800 times showed. But they didn't have what he and others use today.
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Dumbstrongnrverdies wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Championship speed is what they just ran in Paris - notwithstanding Jakob's apparent time-trialling from the gun.
Coe's "championship speed" for Dumb is 3:38.40.
It won him the gold in Moscow. But you don't know anything about the history of the sport so you won't know that.
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know thy history wrote:
How far can I reach wrote:
I guess the whole discussion boils down to: can better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs) increase performance more than EPO?
I am in the yes, yes it can camp, you are obviously not. That's fine.
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
If Ingebrigtsen was clean I doubt he could beat 7:30 for the 3k. He would probably be no faster than Bayi or Walker over the 1500. Probably slower - as they both ran 1:45 or better over the 800. He isn't a natural 1500 runner. Ingebrigtsen simply shows what the sport now depends on.
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"Polish Lewandowski is now helping to organize the Diamond League event in his home country, after he was among Ingebrigtsen's foremost competitors early in his career. Among other things, Lewandowski took bronze in the 1,500 meters at the WC in 2019, just ahead of Ingebrigtsen.
- My job was to stand on the inside and cheer him on. I screamed the lap times and motivated him. That's what he likes, says Lewandowski to NRK, before revealing further help:
- So you should have some of the credit for the world record?
- To be honest, I should have a slightly larger share of the credit. I was the one who made sure he got new spiked shoes, reveals Lewandowski.According to the 37-year-old, Ingebrigtsen had problems with his spiked shoes shortly before the race.
Thus, Lewandowski had to throw himself around to help his former rival. He also succeeded in that in the end.
- I fixed it in the middle of the night. He got new shoes for the event and he set a world record, says Lewandowski with a big smile.
Ingebrigtsen's agent, Swedish Daniel Wessfeldt, confirms the story.
- It was bloody dramatic last night. Jakob went to the stadium for a light training session and to get to know the pitch. Then one spiked shoe was destroyed. It's a spiked shoe you can't buy anywhere, they're really special and unique, says Wessfeldt to NRK.
- So then the question became where to get hold of a similar spiked shoe. Then they were very helpful here in Poland. Someone in the management knew someone who had a running shop. But that doesn't mean they had those spiked shoes, says the Swede, and continues:
- They had a pair exactly his size. The shop was closed, but they were able to open it this morning. Then he (Ingebrigtsen) got the shoes for breakfast."150 -
Armstronglivs wrote:
LarsL11 wrote:
I also like that Ingebrigtsen is a better runner than Elliot and Snell. Cant you make a post on how Kipchoge can't beat the 100m WR from the 30's yet somehow can string together 5000 records from the 40's or something like that? Powerful stuff!
Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell. They were faster than him, as their 800 times showed. But they didn't have what he and others use today.
How do you know Snell and Elliott weren't on PEDS's? Nostalgia?
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Armstronglivs wrote:
know thy history wrote:
I agree with that answer, but the question is the wrong one. Better questions are:
1) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, why can no doper run 7:19? They also have "better training, recovery, tehnology and wave lights and legal supplements (bicarbs)" than Komen did in the 90s.
2) If Jakob can run 7:17 while clean, could he run 7:07 while doped? The Sunday Times experts estimated a gain of 15 - 30 seconds for the 5000, from blood doping alone. Then return to question 1.
If Ingebrigtsen was clean I doubt he could beat 7:30 for the 3k. He would probably be no faster than Bayi or Walker over the 1500. Probably slower - as they both ran 1:45 or better over the 800. He isn't a natural 1500 runner. Ingebrigtsen simply shows what the sport now depends on.
You truly are narrow minded 🏆
It makes no sense that Ingebrigtsen is the only one able to maximize his potential if it's doping that has created his endurance. Why aren't there any good 800-meter runners with a better personal best than Ingebrigtsen in the 1500 meters if the 800 meters is such a golden reference for the potential to become a good 1500-meter runner? It's just a matter of doping oneself like Ingebrigtsen 🤷🏻♂️
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Fair Comp Guy wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell. They were faster than him, as their 800 times showed. But they didn't have what he and others use today.
How do you know Snell and Elliott weren't on PEDS's? Nostalgia?
65 years ago there weren't peds known for distance runners. Athletes like Elliott and Snell couldn't have imagined it was an option. What were they to take? Coffee? Doping had yet to become a significant factor in the sport in the way it has today.
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Aaleby wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
If Ingebrigtsen was clean I doubt he could beat 7:30 for the 3k. He would probably be no faster than Bayi or Walker over the 1500. Probably slower - as they both ran 1:45 or better over the 800. He isn't a natural 1500 runner. Ingebrigtsen simply shows what the sport now depends on.
You truly are narrow minded 🏆
It makes no sense that Ingebrigtsen is the only one able to maximize his potential if it's doping that has created his endurance. Why aren't there any good 800-meter runners with a better personal best than Ingebrigtsen in the 1500 meters if the 800 meters is such a golden reference for the potential to become a good 1500-meter runner? It's just a matter of doping oneself like Ingebrigtsen 🤷🏻♂️
Of course Ingebrigtsen isn't the only athlete doping. It is throughout the top of the sport. It is likely that those who beat him in Paris were also doped.
But doping has enabled md athletes with less speed, like Ingebrigtsen, to greatly increase their endurance and so compensate for that relative deficiency. It is one of the singular changes in the sport since the '90's.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Aaleby wrote:
You truly are narrow minded 🏆
It makes no sense that Ingebrigtsen is the only one able to maximize his potential if it's doping that has created his endurance. Why aren't there any good 800-meter runners with a better personal best than Ingebrigtsen in the 1500 meters if the 800 meters is such a golden reference for the potential to become a good 1500-meter runner? It's just a matter of doping oneself like Ingebrigtsen 🤷🏻♂️
Of course Ingebrigtsen isn't the only athlete doping. It is throughout the top of the sport. It is likely that those who beat him in Paris were also doped.
But doping has enabled md athletes with less speed, like Ingebrigtsen, to greatly increase their endurance and so compensate for that relative deficiency. It is one of the singular changes in the sport since the '90's.
Still makes no sense. Speed+endurance should be superior. Why is Ingebrigtsen clearly the best 1500-meter runner in terms of time if the only requirement for faster athletes is to dope themselves like Ingebrigtsen?
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Aaleby wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Of course Ingebrigtsen isn't the only athlete doping. It is throughout the top of the sport. It is likely that those who beat him in Paris were also doped.
But doping has enabled md athletes with less speed, like Ingebrigtsen, to greatly increase their endurance and so compensate for that relative deficiency. It is one of the singular changes in the sport since the '90's.
Still makes no sense. Speed+endurance should be superior. Why is Ingebrigtsen clearly the best 1500-meter runner in terms of time if the only requirement for faster athletes is to dope themselves like Ingebrigtsen?
Superior endurance may give him the best times - so far - but his relative lack of speed shows in the way he is out-kicked in championship finals (and DL races).
But the ascension of the relatively slower endurance athlete in md has been noticeable since the 90's, with runners like El G and Lagat. Neither was world class over the 800. Since that era 800 runners have mainly been specialists and not attempted to move up to the 1500. The time has been and gone for athletes like Snell, Coe and Ovett. In the 1500 drug-fuelled super endurance now trumps speed + trained endurance.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
LarsL11 wrote:
I also like that Ingebrigtsen is a better runner than Elliot and Snell. Cant you make a post on how Kipchoge can't beat the 100m WR from the 30's yet somehow can string together 5000 records from the 40's or something like that? Powerful stuff!
Ingebrigtsen isn't a better runner than Elliott and Snell. They were faster than him, as their 800 times showed. But they didn't have what he and others use today.
He already has surpassed them by some margin. Ingebrigtsen already is within the top 5 distance runners in history (without any doubt in top 10). Elliott and Snell can't be ranked that high.
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