Initially, this thread was entitled "UCLA track coach, Sean Brosnan, Fired for NCAA violations" but we changed it as Brosnan told us he was simply not renewed for next year.
I've heard that he has very little empathy while coaching and can kind of be a jerk during workouts. This was from a female college athlete of his so take that for what you will. So maybe he'd be better working with more experienced athletes who likely have tougher skin/don't care as much.
Every coach has a different style and personality. I think Brosnan is better for the pro ranks. The man can coach and knows what to do. I think being at a school like UCLA is a bad choice for both Brosnan and UCLA. Brosnan likes to push the envelope. He’s an outside of the box coach and person with a big ego. UCLA is a safe mediocre school for distance. Maybe Brosnan thought he could change a school like UCLA, but he found out the hard way it will never happen. He needs to coach pro group to fully excel.
The guy was a one pump chump. You got lucky with one great class and didn't have a talent to stick around, let them graduate, and coach 5 or 10 more classes to the same level.
That's my impression. I think Brosnan would have survived, at least short term, if he hadn't stupidly pushed matters with Frias. The timing there was ridiculous. One day she's part of a conference championship DMR team that held off Tuohy. She's in all the photos smiling and posing with the trophy. Then within days Duke is holding her out of the NCAA indoor meet amidst a lengthy thread here that Frias is transferring to UCLA.
Remember how furious the Duke coaches were when they lost that conference indoor title due to a dropped baton in the final stride of the 4 x 400 relay? They had no reason to complain but they ranted in public and on social media. Now translate that furor to finding out within days/hours that your prized freshman recruit is departing. I damn well guarantee the Duke coaches complained. I can see the intensity level of Reck when she's inches from the curb shouting out instructions to Maatoug on ever lap. This program had carefully built a conference contending program piece by piece. Not superstars but scorers everywhere. Mess with their blueprint and darn right the NCAA is going to hear about it, with names front and center.
Besides, Frias obviously wasn't all that unhappy at Duke. She must have continued taking online classes during her absence because she eventually flew back and finished the semester by taking her finals in person. She had a "Tribute to Duke" Instagram post during that period, with her former teammates raving about her and emphasizing how much they'll miss her.
When the Duke coaches and others in the athletic department absorb all of that, yes they're going to keep pushing with the NCAA, if not also directly to UCLA higher ups. During her absence, the Duke head track coach was quoted as saying the matter was "unresolved," meaning they still had hopes of retaining Frias. Frias must have given them some indications she was conflicted. It was not a clean break but Brosnan got too cocky and spilled the info prematurely.
I don't mind it at all when someone is done in due to remarkable ignorance of situational influence.
I would bet a good amount of money that this was mostly Lananna’s doing. He is aggressive himself (and not, in my personal experience, a likable guy at all), I am sure he did not appreciate getting out-Lananna’d by the new guy.
I am a big fan of SB, but in HS dynasty coaching your ability to control your athletes is much greater than it is at the next level. The cult like athlete devotion that many elite programs develop depends on the parents letting you do that and while you can threaten scholarships at the collegiate level you can't micromanage every aspect of a free young adult as successfully.
Sorry but I’m calling BS here. You write as if there were clear-cut NCAA violations supported by expansive evidence - and yet there is no word the NCAA found anything, period. If all was as you say, they would be hanging Brosnan (and UCLA) from a tree. Also, a lot of “maybes” in your post.
That's my impression. I think Brosnan would have survived, at least short term, if he hadn't stupidly pushed matters with Frias. The timing there was ridiculous. One day she's part of a conference championship DMR team that held off Tuohy. She's in all the photos smiling and posing with the trophy. Then within days Duke is holding her out of the NCAA indoor meet amidst a lengthy thread here that Frias is transferring to UCLA.
Remember how furious the Duke coaches were when they lost that conference indoor title due to a dropped baton in the final stride of the 4 x 400 relay? They had no reason to complain but they ranted in public and on social media. Now translate that furor to finding out within days/hours that your prized freshman recruit is departing. I damn well guarantee the Duke coaches complained. I can see the intensity level of Reck when she's inches from the curb shouting out instructions to Maatoug on ever lap. This program had carefully built a conference contending program piece by piece. Not superstars but scorers everywhere. Mess with their blueprint and darn right the NCAA is going to hear about it, with names front and center.
Besides, Frias obviously wasn't all that unhappy at Duke. She must have continued taking online classes during her absence because she eventually flew back and finished the semester by taking her finals in person. She had a "Tribute to Duke" Instagram post during that period, with her former teammates raving about her and emphasizing how much they'll miss her.
When the Duke coaches and others in the athletic department absorb all of that, yes they're going to keep pushing with the NCAA, if not also directly to UCLA higher ups. During her absence, the Duke head track coach was quoted as saying the matter was "unresolved," meaning they still had hopes of retaining Frias. Frias must have given them some indications she was conflicted. It was not a clean break but Brosnan got too cocky and spilled the info prematurely.
I don't mind it at all when someone is done in due to remarkable ignorance of situational influence.
fine, but then your very long post overlooked what is the only truly damning issue (if true). Sort of pointless to talk about Brosnan's firing without addressing what is essentially the elephant in the room.
i'm not sure i understand. i'd like to think it's only "truly damning" if found to be true, not parenthetically if true, so your turn of phrase there is strange. but even if the rumors ended up being true, i'm not sure these are "truly damning" offenses, but that's above my pay grade; perhaps in some spiritual tome recruiting violations has its own level of hell. my belief: if i can't refute rumors, nor can i prove them, why should i address them, especially when they've been addressed ad nauseam? i'm happy to admit i don't even have any inside information regarding any of them. they're only the "elephant in the room" because people are screaming them more loudly, and everyone likes a good scandal. for my part, i'd rather have a very long post ;).
when a d1 coach publicly accuses brosnan, and/or when the ncaa officially finds proof of violations, i'll reevaluate, and maybe even change my opinions (though my facts should still stand), but i generally try not to let anonymous posters affect my opinions...
No reason to belabor this, but why not. You wrote a long post with a bunch of guesses and hunches and speculation -- and a few "facts" though a lot of those were just conjecture or extrapolated from personal experience -- essentially defending Brosnan. To be clear, I also don't know that Brosnan is "guilty" of anything. The only thing we 100% know to be true is that he received a vote of no confidence from Anderson or from the athletic department or both.
But back to your post: whether you intended to or not, you defended him with your own conjecture yet didn't address the most damning conjecture against him. It was pointless bloviating on your part. I posted initially because I genuinely thought you had missed the discussion of recruiting violations, but apparently not. Sure, those are rumors, but they have a ring of truth to them especially because Brosnan obliquely addressed them in his IG thing.
Let me also add that your hunches and guesses included your opinion that Brosnan didn't "have to recruit illegally or unethically," which is an absurd argument. "He didn't need to cheat on recruiting because he's successful" is the same as saying "he didn't need to rape her because he get can women whenever he wants" or "he didn't cheat on his taxes because he's rich." Guess what, successful people cheat all the time. Successful people with big egos probably do even more. .
Has there ever been such a long thread for the departure of an NCAA coach in the history of LR?
That certainly means something. And yes, UCLA cannot be an option for any mid distance/distance runner in the future. They were mediocre for years. There was a glimpse of success. They prioritized potential school reputation over athlete potential success. They will do it again in the future. End of program.
Has there ever been such a long thread for the departure of an NCAA coach in the history of LR?
That certainly means something. And yes, UCLA cannot be an option for any mid distance/distance runner in the future. They were mediocre for years. There was a glimpse of success. They prioritized potential school reputation over athlete potential success. They will do it again in the future. End of program.
I was going to stay out of this but after this I can't ...
Longest thread means something?... yep, but I'm sure we differ on what we think the reasons are.
As for the rest of your hyperbolic post... why can't a mid-distance/distance runner succeed at UCLA? It's not like this guy who got fired is the only good coach in the world. There are other good ones. They will find one. It's UCLA.
And of course a school is going to prioritize the school's reputation over athletic success... virtually every school would... except maybe some SEC school (in football). FFS this is distance running ... of course the school's rep comes first.
I don't know what this guy did or didn't do but he was let go. He's not the first coach to be let go nor the last. Running around like a bull in a china shop in your first year on the job was probably not the way to go, I guess.
Athletes can and will have success there. Letting this guy go is not the 'End of Program'.
Time to move on if you know what I mean and I think you do.
Every coach has a different style and personality. I think Brosnan is better for the pro ranks. The man can coach and knows what to do. I think being at a school like UCLA is a bad choice for both Brosnan and UCLA. Brosnan likes to push the envelope. He’s an outside of the box coach and person with a big ego. UCLA is a safe mediocre school for distance. Maybe Brosnan thought he could change a school like UCLA, but he found out the hard way it will never happen. He needs to coach pro group to fully excel.
All you fanboys make it seem like he was too good for UCLA. According to the administration, HE WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR UCLA.
Stop making excuses by saying UCLA doesn't have enough scholarships in distance. No coach starts their first college job with the max allotment of scholarships all put into distance. To earn a better opportunity, you have to achieve more with less.
Brosnan injured his sub 4 miler, his top female made critical mistakes in the prelim and didn't advance, he brought in a bad recruiting class and got into hot water in the transfer portal. He didn't excel in ANY area. Some of his athletes improved a little, some did not, and many got long-term injuries from his training.
While achieving sub-par results, he made enemies both at home and with opposing coaches. The whole year was an ultimate failure.
I've heard that he has very little empathy while coaching and can kind of be a jerk during workouts. This was from a female college athlete of his so take that for what you will. So maybe he'd be better working with more experienced athletes who likely have tougher skin/don't care as much.
This notion that he would be a better fit for pros is total garbage. Besides the talent lottery he won, he had a bunch of parents who were equally obsessed about the kids success as Brosnan. He could ask them to do anything and treat them any way he wanted and they would all take it because they wanted to be part of it so badly. They committed more than any other high schools around which is part of the secret ingredient to their success.
College kids parents are usually less involved (with the exception of Mr Barnett) and college kids have more developed opinions and are harder to bully into doing whatever you ask.
Pros even less. They are adults, driven on their own and don't need some over zealous task master driving them. They need knowledgeable confidants who are there to support them. He's not that.
I have zero issues with the guy when he coached at NP or UCLA.
Regardless, he's surely a way better than average HS Coach, but.........................--->he was gifted by some very, very talented distance runners. He pretty much got about 5 Jeff Nelsons in a 2 year period.
I'm sure you are reading every post Mr. Brosnan, so it's nothing personal, but you were given a boat load of talent in a very short period of time. With that said, you also did a great job coaching them. Well done sir!
Has there ever been such a long thread for the departure of an NCAA coach in the history of LR?
That certainly means something. And yes, UCLA cannot be an option for any mid distance/distance runner in the future. They were mediocre for years. There was a glimpse of success. They prioritized potential school reputation over athlete potential success. They will do it again in the future. End of program.
Almost no schools have any reputation left. UCLA? Recruiting violations back to John Wooden, Chip Kelly was cleanest football coach they could find? Popular landing spot for Operation Varsity Blues. I still don't get this, at least all of Brosnan's recruits can read and write and will graduate, like him or hate him, he made great strides in recruiting on the women's side.
In hindsight there really was no need to rush these transfers. Only Barnett (as a soph) impacted indoor and outdoor. Frias and McDonnell ended up sitting out, Frias could have waited til after dmr to enter portal and it would have made no difference.
No reason to belabor this, but why not. You wrote a long post with a bunch of guesses and hunches and speculation -- and a few "facts" though a lot of those were just conjecture or extrapolated from personal experience -- essentially defending Brosnan. To be clear, I also don't know that Brosnan is "guilty" of anything. The only thing we 100% know to be true is that he received a vote of no confidence from Anderson or from the athletic department or both.
But back to your post: whether you intended to or not, you defended him with your own conjecture yet didn't address the most damning conjecture against him. It was pointless bloviating on your part. I posted initially because I genuinely thought you had missed the discussion of recruiting violations, but apparently not. Sure, those are rumors, but they have a ring of truth to them especially because Brosnan obliquely addressed them in his IG thing.
Let me also add that your hunches and guesses included your opinion that Brosnan didn't "have to recruit illegally or unethically," which is an absurd argument. "He didn't need to cheat on recruiting because he's successful" is the same as saying "he didn't need to rape her because he get can women whenever he wants" or "he didn't cheat on his taxes because he's rich." Guess what, successful people cheat all the time. Successful people with big egos probably do even more. .
it's ok to belabor--that's what letsrun's for. that you used bloviating correctly--yes, i'll admit to it, and it ain't the first time i've been accused of such--shows some intelligence, but i'll still double down on my point: why should i address the rumors? i'm not saying they're outlandish; i'm just saying it's pointless to speculate, for the same reason i try not to speculate much on who's on drugs (though i have opinions on the matter). while bloviating, i was also trying to just lend some perspective as a non-anonymous poster, an actual coach, and with some legitimate insight into the ucla program dating back to 1984. take it or leave it. that said, you completely lost me with your last paragraph above--i'm okay with you thinking my argument (i did label it as an educated guess, though it may be closer to an opinion, but it's more than a hunch since i've talked to sean about the h.s. accusations) is absurd (that's your opinion), but your first analogy is a little strange and misplaced. i guess that's my opinion, though...
I've heard that he has very little empathy while coaching and can kind of be a jerk during workouts. This was from a female college athlete of his so take that for what you will. So maybe he'd be better working with more experienced athletes who likely have tougher skin/don't care as much.
Every coach has a different style and personality. I think Brosnan is better for the pro ranks. The man can coach and knows what to do. I think being at a school like UCLA is a bad choice for both Brosnan and UCLA. Brosnan likes to push the envelope. He’s an outside of the box coach and person with a big ego. UCLA is a safe mediocre school for distance. Maybe Brosnan thought he could change a school like UCLA, but he found out the hard way it will never happen. He needs to coach pro group to fully excel.
Great.
Another "push the envelope, outside the box" coach for the pro ranks.
Has there ever been such a long thread for the departure of an NCAA coach in the history of LR?
That certainly means something. And yes, UCLA cannot be an option for any mid distance/distance runner in the future. They were mediocre for years. There was a glimpse of success. They prioritized potential school reputation over athlete potential success. They will do it again in the future. End of program.
not sure if it was long but when Martin Smith was pushed out of Oregon in the spring 2005 to make room for Prince Galen Rupp that caused a lot of shockwaves. Pat Tyson was interim and eventually Vin Lananna took over. We've come full circle here maybe?
To clear up an earlier post that questioned whether coach Brosnan and the Youngs were part of the Newbury Park Track Club: While we wish him well, the Newbury Park Track Club does not have an affiliation with Sean Brosnan. He may have an affiliation with a separate club called the Newbury Park Athletic Club.
I am a former president of the NPTC. We are a youth (primarily elementary and middle school kids) club that has operated in Newbury Park since 1968. We rent time on the high school track and we are proud that many of our athletes go on to success at NPHS, but we have no other affiliation with the high school program. The Young boys never wore NPTC uniforms but did compete as youths with a similar club in Camarillo.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Has there ever been such a long thread for the departure of an NCAA coach in the history of LR?
That certainly means something. And yes, UCLA cannot be an option for any mid distance/distance runner in the future. They were mediocre for years. There was a glimpse of success. They prioritized potential school reputation over athlete potential success. They will do it again in the future. End of program.
Almost no schools have any reputation left. UCLA? Recruiting violations back to John Wooden, Chip Kelly was cleanest football coach they could find? Popular landing spot for Operation Varsity Blues. I still don't get this, at least all of Brosnan's recruits can read and write and will graduate, like him or hate him, he made great strides in recruiting on the women's side.
In hindsight there really was no need to rush these transfers. Only Barnett (as a soph) impacted indoor and outdoor. Frias and McDonnell ended up sitting out, Frias could have waited til after dmr to enter portal and it would have made no difference.
The fact that you are mentioning Sean Brosnan in the same sentence as John Wooden(!) or even Chip Kelly means you don’t get it. Yes John Wooden, the coach of ten NCAA championship teams in a span of 12 years, John Wooden who many consider one of the top 10 coaches in the annals of American sports, any sport, John Wooden who did more to establish UCLA as an internationally renowned institution than anybody else, that John Wooden might have been able to keep his job even if he did tamper with Dalia Frias. Sean Brosnan, first year collegiate coach with no notable NCAA accomplishments in a minor sport, not so much.
This post was edited 40 seconds after it was posted.
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