We’ve changed the thread title many times. At one point, it was called: Tokyo 2025 World Athletics Championships Day 8 Live Discussion Thread - US men bomb out of 4 x 400, Jamaica men bomb out of 4 x 100
Great race and Wanyonyi did it the hard way. What a beast.
It does show how ridiculous Rudisha’s 1:40.91 was. Also run from the front - but without the shoes or bicarb.
McPhillips closed like an absolute maniac. Didn’t catch it on the first watch but on replay he was SO far back. Surely he has 1:41 in him if not 1:41 low. Wow
Taking nearly 4 seconds off his PB in a single year is wild
If you're trying to sell this as success it's poor salesmanship. 340 million people, the best facilities in the world, a high school and college system that allows young talent to get paid as they develop, access to PED's (note on access, not necessarily usage)....one year ago the board was creaming about US near dominance. Not a fan.
If your post was just informational and not a rebuttal then...never mind.
Never claimed it was "success." If anything, it is a disappointment. We had quite a few people who had the ability to medal this championship but none have come through yet. I agree, with our facilities, population, and money, the US should be doing better.
The last time the US did not win a medal above 400m for both men and women was 2005 in Helsinki. That is 14 global outdoor championships straight where we came home with at least one. We still have one last shot in the 5000m with three guys who have the ability to medal. Maybe the streak will continue.
Does sh!tting on world-class athletes in their greatest moments make your hollow, empty pathetic life feel more complete? Or does it just make you feel more hollow and empty?
I take a dump on US distance fanboys like you who think their runners are inherently better than the rest of the world. Plus if you can't understand or deal with what I posted about the slow pace being a misleading factor in the final race results then listen to Kara Goucher who consistently remarked how the pace gave everyone a shot.
Houlihan and Andrews ran very good races by their own standards. They were extreme long shots to medal. A slow race isn’t a misleading factor, it’s just what happens in most championship races. Those two women positioned themselves well, raced well, and therefore punched above their weight.
I don't know if this is just a dumb theory, a red hot take, or something else.
Bi carb isn't working as well anymore (more depth, but guys at top aren't as fast as last year) because they're using it for ALL of their training, and losing some adaptations that come from training through the lactate or whatever the scientific thing is.
So last year they had training adaptations and bi-carb adaptations combined, because they weren't very far removed from "non bi-carb training." But now it's just the bi-carb working. Their body hasn't had to fight through something quite as intense anymore.
OR, maybe guys just aren't as motivated in a non olympic year.
Last year, 5 guys under 1:42, 12 under 1:43. Average of the guys under 1:42 : 1:41.45
This year, 3 guys under 1:42, 17 under 1:43. Average of the guys under 1:42: 1:41.76
Another interesting tidbit, I believe JG said on one of the pods that Brazier does not use bi-carb. correct me if im wrong.
I always understood that bi-carb was a racing supplement more than a training supplement because it shouldn't be used everyday. I didn't think of that pertaining to training adaptation though.
Are you saying then that Maurten bi-carb can be beneficial for a race but may hurt performance if taken regularly? Interesting.
Before the shot clock in college hoops teams who were overmatched used a strategy called "stall ball" where they slowed the game to a crawl to keep it close, then usually lose something like 20-15 and everyone said "They only lost by 5 points". But had they tried to play a fast game they would've lost by 30. No difference here.
I mean come on, Chebet, Kipyegon and Tsegay are all 14:00, what's the American Record? 14:20? You really think Hooly and Andrews would've been that close with an honest pace?
I don't think anyone doubts that this has been a disastrous World Champs for the United States in the distances, especially given how many medal threats we had. Houlihan the doper and Andrews played it pretty much right to take it slow. In fact, if they could have still led, they should have stayed back in the mid-70s all the way to the last lap, because that was the only way they'd have a shot to medal against a host of low 14 to sub-14 athletes. Chebet is so doped it is out of control. She ran a 27 last 200m in the 10k. She is a good deal better than Kipyegon and might even beat her at any event on the track.
I don't think anyone doubts that this has been a disastrous World Champs for the United States in the distances, especially given how many medal threats we had. Houlihan the doper and Andrews played it pretty much right to take it slow. In fact, if they could have still led, they should have stayed back in the mid-70s all the way to the last lap, because that was the only way they'd have a shot to medal against a host of low 14 to sub-14 athletes. Chebet is so doped it is out of control. She ran a 27 last 200m in the 10k. She is a good deal better than Kipyegon and might even beat her at any event on the track.
They were running 15:30 pace with a mile left. Just saying, as Goucher was saying, a slow pace gives everyone a chance. And to me it's not indicative of the individuals.
The exchange was not the problem. Being in 5th place and in traffic was the problem because the 2nd leg was terrible. Bailey didn't blow the doors off either, but 2nd leg was brutal. Deadmon hadn't looked good in the mixed relay either, so not sure why he was on there. 3:01 won't even win the ncaa championships. That's just an awful result.
I don't know if this is just a dumb theory, a red hot take, or something else.
Bi carb isn't working as well anymore (more depth, but guys at top aren't as fast as last year) because they're using it for ALL of their training, and losing some adaptations that come from training through the lactate or whatever the scientific thing is.
So last year they had training adaptations and bi-carb adaptations combined, because they weren't very far removed from "non bi-carb training." But now it's just the bi-carb working. Their body hasn't had to fight through something quite as intense anymore.
OR, maybe guys just aren't as motivated in a non olympic year.
Last year, 5 guys under 1:42, 12 under 1:43. Average of the guys under 1:42 : 1:41.45
This year, 3 guys under 1:42, 17 under 1:43. Average of the guys under 1:42: 1:41.76
Another interesting tidbit, I believe JG said on one of the pods that Brazier does not use bi-carb. correct me if im wrong.
Ethiopian runner (translated by Mesret Defar) confirms the conditions are not conducive for them.
Exactly, Don't they train in the Entoto Mountains at 10-12 THOUSAND FEET, Which would mean very Cool Conditions in spite of the Proximity to the Equator.
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Here are the estimated numbers of disqualifications (DQ) in the men's and women's 4x100m and 4x400m relay events at the Olympics and World Championships, excluding doping-related disqualifications: CountryEstimated DQsUnited States 10 Jamaica 4 Russia 3 South Africa 2 Ghana 2 Great Britain 2 Australia 2