This is true. In fact, there is a good argument that Clinton's second term was closer W Bush on issues like welfare reform and the repeal of Glass Stegall than any prior Democrat. Ironically, Biden, who was the most centrist coming in, may have been the furthest to the left (not by a lot) with a lot more progressive policies in the IRA (mainly the prescription drug price stuff) and a reinvigorated FTC that is pissing off all the corporate giants with a hard line on monopolies.
Harris will undoubtedly be the same sort of centrist Dem as Biden as she has been hand picked by the corporate DNC and Biden backers. Policy positions have basically been more of the same from Harris.
The irony is that this election will end up being extremely close because Harris is not willing to go big and is just going to count on the Dem base to show up with enough independents to get her over the line, while Trump is able to do way better against Harris than he should by being the one with the big bold ideas.
You guys keep on trying to sell Kamala as a centrist. There is nothing in Harris’ voting history that remotely suggests that idea. She was named the most liberal member of the senate. Her presidential platforms have included such policies as Medicare for All, decriminalization of all drugs, a mandatory gun buy back program, a $25k first time home buyer credit, student loan forgiveness, government price fixing, anti-free trade policies, co-sponsoring the Green New Deal with Bernie Sanders, increased taxation, amnesty for illegal aliens, an open border policy, etc. Tell me how all those things qualify her as a moderate / centrist?
The downvotes on this are perplexing. These are uncontroverted facts.
With a view to the policies described by above, in what way would the downvoters consider her centrist or center left? I am genuinely asking and would like to know your take(s).
This is true. In fact, there is a good argument that Clinton's second term was closer W Bush on issues like welfare reform and the repeal of Glass Stegall than any prior Democrat. Ironically, Biden, who was the most centrist coming in, may have been the furthest to the left (not by a lot) with a lot more progressive policies in the IRA (mainly the prescription drug price stuff) and a reinvigorated FTC that is pissing off all the corporate giants with a hard line on monopolies.
Harris will undoubtedly be the same sort of centrist Dem as Biden as she has been hand picked by the corporate DNC and Biden backers. Policy positions have basically been more of the same from Harris.
The irony is that this election will end up being extremely close because Harris is not willing to go big and is just going to count on the Dem base to show up with enough independents to get her over the line, while Trump is able to do way better against Harris than he should by being the one with the big bold ideas.
You guys keep on trying to sell Kamala as a centrist. There is nothing in Harris’ voting history that remotely suggests that idea. She was named the most liberal member of the senate. Her presidential platforms have included such policies as Medicare for All, decriminalization of all drugs, a mandatory gun buy back program, a $25k first time home buyer credit, student loan forgiveness, government price fixing, anti-free trade policies, co-sponsoring the Green New Deal with Bernie Sanders, increased taxation, amnesty for illegal aliens, an open border policy, etc. Tell me how all those things qualify her as a moderate / centrist?
There are hardly any true leftist politicians. What is considered liberal and leftist nowadays is only mildly “left”
I’m not a fan of Vance, nor of Trump. I know you won’t believe that, but it’s true. But, more than anything, it’s important to point out the hypocrisy of the left, and that they really have no platform beyond racial grievance/oppression politics, reproductive rights, and the other guy is an “existential threat to Democracy,” said with a straight face in the wake of the trampling of individual liberties with institutionalized COVID, the coup to *force* Joe Biden out, the attempt to Democratize all of the would-be voting illegal immigrants that could simply have been stopped during a three year “insurrection” with the correct messaging and executive orders, and the unwillingness to meaningfully tackle government spending and the debt (not to mention entitlements, which are easily remedied with some simple changes).
Agip is correct about being wealthier and more *civil* than ever thanks to the full march of time, the fact that we rebuilt the world after WW2 and have enjoyed global reserve currency status, and have bought our current prosperity with ever more debt (debt to GDP was 50% under Clinton/Gingrich). But we are on the precipice here and people are just too dumb to see it. I’m actually libertarian by registration and policy, but, man I just can’t believe the hollow and manufactured rhetoric the Dems get away with. It’s actually appalling that people are so gullible.
As to the question you highlighted, what specifically did Harris offer beyond “turn the page” and empty platitudes? What specifically about herself and her policy prescription so compelled you, other than she’s not Joe Biden nor Donald Trump? What excites you?
What drivers of federal budget deficits / debt may have been different under Clinton/gingrich? what is your stance on tax policy and how less tax revenue contributes to the debt problem you are so worried about? if Trump tax cuts are re-upped, CBO expects $4T extra to deficit over 10 years. tax the wealthy, increase the cap on SS payroll tax, tax corporations, crack down on tax evasion.
The biggest drivers of fiscal responsibility under Clinton were the new technology paradigm and a bulldog in Gingrich who forced fiscal restraint. Admittedly, we have not had that combo since the 1990s.
You seem to be suggesting that all and everywhere it’s a taxing problem and not a spending problem. There is so much waste, fraud, abuse, overlap, and inefficiency in government spending that we could solve the entire deficit problem just by making cuts and making it more productive. Entitlements alone (even though they are “off balance sheet” but not off cash flow), along with interest on the debt eat up a ridiculous an inordinate amount of the deficit.
You want to reform SS, for example??? Alright, let’s do that. Let’s increase the taxable base, but let’s also gradually increase the age of eligibility, allow a chunk of it to be invested (so that your overall return adjusted for inflation isn’t actually negative on that money set aside for you), and perhaps index it to PCE instead of CPI. Or, perhaps not index it all, only raise it relative to GNP in any given year.
Tax policy issues are tricky, but, generally, I’m not a fan of confiscating someone else’s risk capital that can otherwise be spent or loaned through an economy just to inefficiently subsidize someone else’s government pet projects that only seem to grow and never seem to be audited or produce tangible results. A higher corporate tax? It will just cause even more companies and capital to flee for greener pastures in friendlier tax domiciles.
Finally, I’m not sure how much you guys want the rich to pay. They are already paying the bulk of Federal tax and state tax in progressive states. If you want to increase the tax on them, again, fine, but then everyone needs to pay taxes, including the lowest income strata. You do not get to vote if you don’t pay any federal or state income tax. Simple. Everyone need to have a real, tangible stake in this country.
I appreciate the question actually, because this is actually important, unlike all the superficial and peripheral bull$hit about abortion, J6, and poorly attended rallies. Such nonsense. Spoon fed by our media to the sheep.
I’ll leave you with this:
“In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.”
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) made many significant, but temporary, changes to the individual income tax code to lower tax rates, widen brackets, increase the standard deduction and child tax credit, and more.
Joe campaigned closer to the center and governed from the left. What makes you think Kamala, his VP whose voting history suggests she is completely removed from moderate positions, would govern from the center?
You guys keep on trying to sell Kamala as a centrist. There is nothing in Harris’ voting history that remotely suggests that idea. She was named the most liberal member of the senate. Her presidential platforms have included such policies as Medicare for All, decriminalization of all drugs, a mandatory gun buy back program, a $25k first time home buyer credit, student loan forgiveness, government price fixing, anti-free trade policies, co-sponsoring the Green New Deal with Bernie Sanders, increased taxation, amnesty for illegal aliens, an open border policy, etc. Tell me how all those things qualify her as a moderate / centrist?
if elected she would govern from the center left like Clinton, like Obama, like Biden.
not sure how much more clear I can be than that. \
Sure, Rs will call that 'marxism' and 'socialism' but they've been doign that since the 1950s and it's just stupid.
Joe campaigned closer to the center and governed from the left. What makes you think Kamala, his VP whose voting history suggests she is completely removed from moderate positions, would govern from the center
I know this much,if I were in need of a financial manager,I would not hire someone who has run 6 companies into bankruptcy.
If I were looking for a neighborhood to move my family,I would hesitate because if I found out my neighbor has been found guilty for sexually assaulting a woman.
If I was hiring to run a public agency,I would not hire someone who has subverted the rule of law for his own selfish interests.
If I needed a character witness,I would not call on a convicted felon.
What drivers of federal budget deficits / debt may have been different under Clinton/gingrich? what is your stance on tax policy and how less tax revenue contributes to the debt problem you are so worried about? if Trump tax cuts are re-upped, CBO expects $4T extra to deficit over 10 years. tax the wealthy, increase the cap on SS payroll tax, tax corporations, crack down on tax evasion.
The biggest drivers of fiscal responsibility under Clinton were the new technology paradigm and a bulldog in Gingrich who forced fiscal restraint. Admittedly, we have not had that combo since the 1990s.
You seem to be suggesting that all and everywhere it’s a taxing problem and not a spending problem. There is so much waste, fraud, abuse, overlap, and inefficiency in government spending that we could solve the entire deficit problem just by making cuts and making it more productive. Entitlements alone (even though they are “off balance sheet” but not off cash flow), along with interest on the debt eat up a ridiculous an inordinate amount of the deficit.
You want to reform SS, for example??? Alright, let’s do that. Let’s increase the taxable base, but let’s also gradually increase the age of eligibility, allow a chunk of it to be invested (so that your overall return adjusted for inflation isn’t actually negative on that money set aside for you), and perhaps index it to PCE instead of CPI. Or, perhaps not index it all, only raise it relative to GNP in any given year.
Tax policy issues are tricky, but, generally, I’m not a fan of confiscating someone else’s risk capital that can otherwise be spent or loaned through an economy just to inefficiently subsidize someone else’s government pet projects that only seem to grow and never seem to be audited or produce tangible results. A higher corporate tax? It will just cause even more companies and capital to flee for greener pastures in friendlier tax domiciles.
Finally, I’m not sure how much you guys want the rich to pay. They are already paying the bulk of Federal tax and state tax in progressive states. If you want to increase the tax on them, again, fine, but then everyone needs to pay taxes, including the lowest income strata. You do not get to vote if you don’t pay any federal or state income tax. Simple. Everyone need to have a real, tangible stake in this country.
I appreciate the question actually, because this is actually important, unlike all the superficial and peripheral bull$hit about abortion, J6, and poorly attended rallies. Such nonsense. Spoon fed by our media to the sheep.
I’ll leave you with this:
“In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.”
* In 2021, taxpayers filed 153.6 million tax returns, reported earning more than $14.7 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid nearly $2.2 trillion in individual income taxes.
* The average income tax rate in 2021 was 14.9 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.9 percent average rate, nearly eight times higher than the 3.3 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
*The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 22.2 percent in 2020 to 26.3 percent in 2021 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 42.3 percent to 45.8 percent.
*The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent. The 2021 figures include pandemic-related tax items from the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), such as the non-refundable part of the third round of Recovery Rebates and the expanded child tax credit (CTC) and earned income tax credit (EITC).
*Capital gains realizations exceeded $2 trillion to reach a 40-year high, driving income growth and taxes paid for high-income groups.
if elected she would govern from the center left like Clinton, like Obama, like Biden.
not sure how much more clear I can be than that. \
Sure, Rs will call that 'marxism' and 'socialism' but they've been doign that since the 1950s and it's just stupid.
Joe campaigned closer to the center and governed from the left. What makes you think Kamala, his VP whose voting history suggests she is completely removed from moderate positions, would govern from the center
Because center left is what all the Dems do when raised up to national prominence. It is a center left institutionalist party. That is how she is campaigning. Last night She cited proudly high oil production. She cited support for 2A. she cited support for the armed forces. She cited support for American ideals. She cited support for small business. what more do you want?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Joe campaigned closer to the center and governed from the left. What makes you think Kamala, his VP whose voting history suggests she is completely removed from moderate positions, would govern from the center?
Biden and Harris admin are/will be far right war mongering, nothing for the American people admins.
Proxy war with Russia.
Genocide in Gaza and West Bank.
Locked down schools, churches, small businesses while allowing Walmart, Amazon et al to prosper and gobble up the small businesses that could not survive. Resulted in the greatest transfer of wealth (upward) in our history
Massive censorship.
Mandated experimental gene therapy
Smearing anyone who did not go along
Weaponized the Justice System to go after political opponents.
That's all very far right wing stuff. Nothing leftist or centrist about any of it
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Six states where you can kill babies after they're born? Have you lost your mind?
Trump's been claiming this lunacy at rallies lately, and considering how specifically he doubled down on the claim last night, the moderator had every reason to cut in.
That said, as a Harris supporter, I was nonetheless annoyed every time she chose not to answer direct questions. Especially the softballs.
Trump actually outperformed my admittedly low expectations, mostly speaking in complete sentences, and avoiding the babble that so often derails him. He still lied with pathological ferocity, of course, but didn't melt down in the manner I expected.
The biggest drivers of fiscal responsibility under Clinton were the new technology paradigm and a bulldog in Gingrich who forced fiscal restraint. Admittedly, we have not had that combo since the 1990s.
You seem to be suggesting that all and everywhere it’s a taxing problem and not a spending problem. There is so much waste, fraud, abuse, overlap, and inefficiency in government spending that we could solve the entire deficit problem just by making cuts and making it more productive. Entitlements alone (even though they are “off balance sheet” but not off cash flow), along with interest on the debt eat up a ridiculous an inordinate amount of the deficit.
You want to reform SS, for example??? Alright, let’s do that. Let’s increase the taxable base, but let’s also gradually increase the age of eligibility, allow a chunk of it to be invested (so that your overall return adjusted for inflation isn’t actually negative on that money set aside for you), and perhaps index it to PCE instead of CPI. Or, perhaps not index it all, only raise it relative to GNP in any given year.
Tax policy issues are tricky, but, generally, I’m not a fan of confiscating someone else’s risk capital that can otherwise be spent or loaned through an economy just to inefficiently subsidize someone else’s government pet projects that only seem to grow and never seem to be audited or produce tangible results. A higher corporate tax? It will just cause even more companies and capital to flee for greener pastures in friendlier tax domiciles.
Finally, I’m not sure how much you guys want the rich to pay. They are already paying the bulk of Federal tax and state tax in progressive states. If you want to increase the tax on them, again, fine, but then everyone needs to pay taxes, including the lowest income strata. You do not get to vote if you don’t pay any federal or state income tax. Simple. Everyone need to have a real, tangible stake in this country.
I appreciate the question actually, because this is actually important, unlike all the superficial and peripheral bull$hit about abortion, J6, and poorly attended rallies. Such nonsense. Spoon fed by our media to the sheep.
I’ll leave you with this:
“In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.”
* In 2021, taxpayers filed 153.6 million tax returns, reported earning more than $14.7 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid nearly $2.2 trillion in individual income taxes.
* The average income tax rate in 2021 was 14.9 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.9 percent average rate, nearly eight times higher than the 3.3 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
*The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 22.2 percent in 2020 to 26.3 percent in 2021 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 42.3 percent to 45.8 percent.
*The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent. The 2021 figures include pandemic-related tax items from the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), such as the non-refundable part of the third round of Recovery Rebates and the expanded child tax credit (CTC) and earned income tax credit (EITC).
*Capital gains realizations exceeded $2 trillion to reach a 40-year high, driving income growth and taxes paid for high-income groups.
Focusing solely on income taxes totally misses the whole picture and how bad the total tax burden falls on the lower income group
Is it bad to fact check someone who is claiming that immigrants in Springfield OH are eating dogs and cats?
It's crazy for anyone to claim the debate was "3 on 1" when the moderators repeatedly let Trump speak out of turn but didn't do the same for Kamala. The moderators gave Trump five more minutes of speaking time than they gave to Kamala.
Trump is an idiot who just makes stuff up as he goes.
He keeps pressing this abortion issue that "everyone wanted it in the states". That has never been the case. Never in 50+ years did I hear anyone make that argument before he did. The opposing camps have always been hard and fast -- either pro choice (everywhere in the USA), or pro-life (same). His moronic idea that having 50 different laws in 50 different states for women to figure out is a nightmare.
He also keeps on with this "it never would have happened if I had been there" schtick. Completely untrue, unproveable.
Harris thumped him. It won't change many minds, though.
Six states where you can kill babies after they're born? Have you lost your mind?
Trump's been claiming this lunacy at rallies lately, and considering how specifically he doubled down on the claim last night, the moderator had every reason to cut in.
That said, as a Harris supporter, I was nonetheless annoyed every time she chose not to answer direct questions. Especially the softballs.
Trump actually outperformed my admittedly low expectations, mostly speaking in complete sentences, and avoiding the babble that so often derails him. He still lied with pathological ferocity, of course, but didn't melt down in the manner I expected.
Vermont, Oregon, New Jersey, Alaska, Colorado, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia all have NO state imposed limit on how late in the pregnancy an abortion can be performed.
* In 2021, taxpayers filed 153.6 million tax returns, reported earning more than $14.7 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid nearly $2.2 trillion in individual income taxes.
* The average income tax rate in 2021 was 14.9 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.9 percent average rate, nearly eight times higher than the 3.3 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
*The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 22.2 percent in 2020 to 26.3 percent in 2021 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 42.3 percent to 45.8 percent.
*The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent. The 2021 figures include pandemic-related tax items from the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), such as the non-refundable part of the third round of Recovery Rebates and the expanded child tax credit (CTC) and earned income tax credit (EITC).
*Capital gains realizations exceeded $2 trillion to reach a 40-year high, driving income growth and taxes paid for high-income groups.
Focusing solely on income taxes totally misses the whole picture and how bad the total tax burden falls on the lower income group
The bulk of government revenue is through income taxes, so of course that should be the focus. But, again, fine, you want to argue something else? Then let’s go to a purely consumption-based tax and get rid of our stodgy and Byzantine tax code. Exempt the essentials of living like housing, food, energy, but all other “discretionary” purchases are taxed. You want to soak the rich? They can pay up on their purchases of yachts, expensive clothing, Porsches, and lavish vacations.
Everyone eligible to vote should be a meaningful taxpayer. Remember the beginning of this country and “no taxation without representation?” This is a nuanced and reverse variation of that. Again, the top 10% of taxpayers pay something like 90%+ of income taxes (along w sales taxes, property taxes on much costlier houses, transfer taxes, municipal taxes, and taxes on investment income). What do you think is fair? Should the top 1% be paying 50% Fed and 15% state? These are people, like myself, who invest in the economy and create jobs. Keep that in mind.
Trump actually outperformed my admittedly low expectations, mostly speaking in complete sentences, and avoiding the babble that so often derails him. He still lied with pathological ferocity, of course, but didn't melt down in the manner I expected.
So he basically outperformed a modestly well-behaved kindergartner who had his afternoon snack. I guess that's something.
Six states where you can kill babies after they're born? Have you lost your mind?
Trump's been claiming this lunacy at rallies lately, and considering how specifically he doubled down on the claim last night, the moderator had every reason to cut in.
That said, as a Harris supporter, I was nonetheless annoyed every time she chose not to answer direct questions. Especially the softballs.
Trump actually outperformed my admittedly low expectations, mostly speaking in complete sentences, and avoiding the babble that so often derails him. He still lied with pathological ferocity, of course, but didn't melt down in the manner I expected.
Vermont, Oregon, New Jersey, Alaska, Colorado, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia all have NO state imposed limit on how late in the pregnancy an abortion can be performed.
"in the pregnancy" and "after they're born" are not the same thing, to put it mildly, so you didn't exactly refute that the original poster has lost his/her mind by claiming we could kill babies after they're born, in any state.
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