Mary Cain sues Al Sal and Nike for $20 million over alleged abuse

A central problem is that there is an assumption that sport is a healthy thing to be involved in.

The higher up the ladder the more injurious it is to both body and mind.

Thus you can’t judge what is going on against values and assumptions from a hundred years ago or at least the very early 60’s at the latest.

You may be able to make this point about drugs in sport; some allowed, some not.

AS can’t realistically use the “I actually set her a target weight higher than her then weight” defense, because that would still be admitting to pressuring her to conform to weight expectations, a liability for him. His best line of defense would be to show that her weight expectations were set by her nutritionist or doctor, like he tried arguing in Goucher’s case.

Pretty easy to show data from thousands of runners and the direct correlation between weight and performance. May as well defend it directly with facts. Ryan Hall isn't winning any marathons today.

hooray lawsuits wrote:

So we're gonna what? Maybe a cycle or two? Then everyone cries that Americans aren't taking home medals and demands medals again, Nike/Adidas/Whoever else throws huge money at another coach and tells them "medals at any cost" and off we go again with hurt feelings and stomping feet.

AlSal is being hunted down but the Karolyis are still walking free with zero blame. If AlSal had brough us a couple American medals would we be looking the other way like we do with the Karolyis?

The same can be said for the flip side. Would we even be having this conversation if Cain achieved success/medals?

Instead of “I’d like to thank my family, coaches and supporters who help me win this medal…” We have “I’d like to sue my coaches for keeping me from this medal…”

The chase for athletic achievement at the highest levels is not a healthy endeavor for the athlete. It takes a tremendous amount of talent, tenacity, luck, physiology, and resilience. If you have all that then great, if you don’t - then not so great.

Does that mean the coaching of said athlete needs to be toxic? No. Because, at the end of the day, it’s not the medal that makes the journey worthwhile.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

Because, at the end of the day, it’s not the medal that makes the journey worthwhile.

Nobody except the athletes care about the journey. All anyone else cares about is seeing the athlete stand on the stage while the national anthem plays.

"Are you not entertained?"

novacain wrote:

AS can’t realistically use the “I actually set her a target weight higher than her then weight” defense, because that would still be admitting to pressuring her to conform to weight expectations, a liability for him. His best line of defense would be to show that her weight expectations were set by her nutritionist or doctor, like he tried arguing in Goucher’s case.

Most doctors would stop the pursuit of excellence on normal medical grounds but see sport as outside the normal rules. They would be guided by an experienced coach rather than than the other way about.

There are many who should have given up with the first injury as continued sport would lead to new joints etc but the combined view was that a medal or just competing was worth being a likely cripple in later years.

$20 million because someone called you fat?

What a whiner.

Clearly she has no career and this is a desperate money grab.

Lord Lucan wrote:

Reading through all these AlSal apologists is truly sickening.

Firstly, let it play out - if there is abuse the court will find it and rule accordingly.

He is a convicted cheat and abuser. So, before you pretty much all blame Mary (although the first 7 posts seem to be written by the same person) you need to wait for the facts to be public.

Dirty old men. Sat there still abusing Mary - the irony is palpable.

I don't think anyone here is a Salazar apologist. Mostly we're saying he didn't do anything that rises to the level of a $20 million lawsuit. Deserving of firing? Perhaps. There's a difference between being a d!ck and being abusive. Just in reading what Cain has described, I don't see what he did as abusive. If she's leaving some stuff out that we find out about later, I may change my mind, but right now, I don't see abuse.

Rupp fan wrote:

I supported her when she first came out about all off this. But this is absurd imo. She is essentially suing Al Sal for being a jerk. If she wins, everyone who has had to put up with him should win too. But again, that would be absurd.

Yeah, that's the thing here. She is suing him for being a jerk. Nah...I can't get behind that.

novacain wrote:

AS can’t realistically use the “I actually set her a target weight higher than her then weight” defense, because that would still be admitting to pressuring her to conform to weight expectations, a liability for him. His best line of defense would be to show that her weight expectations were set by her nutritionist or doctor, like he tried arguing in Goucher’s case.

That's the way I see it. If Salazar contemplated Cain's butt and breasts and pulled 114lbs out of the air, then I believe he has some liability.

I don't agree with the posters who claim a judgment against Salazar and Nike will result in a wave of similar lawsuits. The incident with Gabe Grunwald indicates that he is an insensitive jerk, and the horsing around with the rules that got him banned shows poor judgment. I believe there are very few American distance coaches that would have stepped in it like he did with Cain.

Cain is just a cancer. It's obvious she needed a coach that just told her what she wanted to hear. She should have chosen a female coach at that, but she went with the best and the best coaches actually tell you what it takes.

A doctor is not going to ever agree with the weight one needs to be to succeed in being a very very high performing distance runner- because it is NOT what you need to be healthy.

A girl like this should be terrifying to anyone coaching, but especially males that might be coaching her. She will twist everything said, or not said, into her being a victim and you have NO leg to stand on.

. If AlSal had brough us a couple American medals would we be looking the other way like we do with the Karolyis?

Um, pretty sure he "brought us a couple American medals". You've heard of Rupp and Centro, right? Ritz?

Vacilated wrote:

Yusef Scumm. wrote:

This thread certainly has many opinions. That’s all they are……. Opinions.

If the allegations are proven to be false, Nike should counter sue.

Not a Nike fan, but fair is fair.

Hey! You’re finally making sense. Glad you were able to get the sand out of there.

Just doing my part in an attempt to detoxify this joint……lol

Hey just remember never to get too close to someone named Cain. they've been known to turn on you.

[Cain and A[be]l]

All this has made me realize how dangerous it is for a male to coach a young female professional athlete.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If I were a coach, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

When I was running well, several women asked me to "advise" them.

The issue of weight always came up ("am I too fat, is my butt too big?") and I said nah, I ain't going there.

Why aren't there any women professional coaches out there coaching the professional females?

Sure would eliminate the issues debated here.

On another note, if Nike has to pay, I can see them saying, f*** T & F; we're outta here.

And without Nike, professional T & F would cease to exist.

This Cain case seems analogous to Aziz Ansari’s metoo situation. Bad dates are declared sexual harassment; an insensitive coach is declared an emotional and sexual abuser. Although there is an actual lawsuit here, the trial will almost certainly be settled on the media turf.

Yusef Scumm. wrote:

Vacilated wrote:

Hey! You’re finally making sense. Glad you were able to get the sand out of there.

Just doing my part in an attempt to detoxify this joint……lol

These woman/man-child CNN robots can turn the most well intentioned gesture into something ‘toxic’. I’m not even a right winger!

This is ridiculous, it is her parents fault, they pushed her into this. After her freshman year where she split 2:03 at the outdoor HS nationals leading her team to the 4 x 800 title (3 frosh and a soph), then the next day ran a subpar mile finishing 6th. Her parents went to the Bronxville HS coach and told him she wasn't running relays anymore because it took away from her individual performance. She eventually quit the team to run on her own and go pro because she was somewhat of an outcast at her school. This all started at home, nice job mom and dad.