Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

could be wrong wrote:

Canefis wrote:

45th week (next):

Mo: easy 50min @04:20

Tu: track 20x400 @71-72s, rec w/120

We: easy 60min @04:30

Th: easy 80min @04:20

Fri: easy 50min @04:20

Sat: track LT-intervals 12x1000 @03:15min/km, rec wl/120

Sun: off

I await Saturday's session with interest. On August the 14th you did 12 x 1000m at 3:32 min/km average on a treadmill, with walking rest, at what you described as your lactate threshold. I think it is impossible that your lactate threshold has improved that much in the meantime.

Nike Vaporfly Next% shoes will do the trick

Yeah or just a 5k TT. Something more revelant than a bunch of 400s.

In fairness... I follow canefis on Strava. I do think he can break 3 in early 2021. I think he also has a shot at sub 2:50 and maybe a serious stretch goal of 2:45 if things progress well. In order to do this he will have to ramp up volume and do a lot more marathon specific work.

He runs 65 miles a week at around 7 minute pace with occasional workouts currently. He also has a background in cycling and, it seems, a reasonably well developed aerobic system.

My guess on current fitness:

5k - mid 16s

10 - low 34s

HM - 1:19

Marathon - 2:58

Canefis, thanks for this thread, I am following it with interest. Did you take a lactate test to see at which HR your threshold pace is?

A question nobody seem to have asked, which I think is relevan for our understanding: what did you do in your cycling career?

could be wrong wrote:

On July the 10th you described 12.37km at 4:51 min/km average as a hard run. It might perhaps be, if you are more fast twitch, that you can rattle off fast 400s. But I don't believe it possible to go from that level of fitness in July to a sub 3 hour marathon in early 2021, never mind anything close to what you are aiming for. Here's a challenge: I suspect you would struggle to run 15km in an hour at the moment. Why don't you try it? An hour's tempo run (not race-like effort, it should be very controlled) is standard marathon training. You might just manage it, but I very much doubt by much. In which case it will be enough of a challenge for you to try to break 3 hours in early 2021, and we can cut out the delusional stuff coming from JS.

What you are saying is of course without substance. I didn`t coach him back then and now he can with ease run at least 4:20 min / km at easy runs and right now his paces and feeling at the paces points to a 2:24 marathon. This fast improvement is what happens with all runners at all levels I have coached so far, now five years.Everyone that wants to develop individual running are welcome to my system and coaching.

[quote]highhoppingworm wrote:

I do think he can break 3 in early 2021.

...

In order to do this he will have to ramp up volume and do a lot more marathon specific work. [\quote]

I agree with both of these statements. I suspect at the moment he is a case of decent potential in the long term (several years down the line), but almost completely lacking aerobic strength. I suspect there would already be a big drop off in a 10km compared to his 3000m time, never mind a marathon.

In particular, JS is not helping Canefis with his delusions. What I suspect will happen is that things go up in smoke once it is realised that the goal is completely unrealistic, and then JS in a year or so will report back that Canefis was head-hunted by the European Space Agency to land on Mars, or abandoned modern technology to live as a monk, or some such dramatic turn of events.

You seem to forgotten Canefis has put miles, miles and 1000th of boring slow miles to build up his base.

Delusions?? His training right now speaks plain "language" and towards possible to run a marathon in 2:24 with three more months to train. Of course plain "language"only to experts

on low mileage training. "The secret" to run fast is mainly not about how many miles you run per week, it`s more about HOW you run your miles!

Think coach will say that he pr on the 5k, 10k, 10miles, HM and Full marathon.

But that is easy, because Canefis has no pr's on the most distances yet

He did however run a marathon distance on a treadmill in 3:30 so mentally oke.

So again, good luck to you Slava, that's all folks ;-)

could be wrong wrote:

Canefis wrote:

45th week (next):

Mo: easy 50min @04:20

Tu: track 20x400 @71-72s, rec w/120

We: easy 60min @04:30

Th: easy 80min @04:20

Fri: easy 50min @04:20

Sat: track LT-intervals 12x1000 @03:15min/km, rec wl/120

Sun: off

I await Saturday's session with interest. On August the 14th you did 12 x 1000m at 3:32 min/km average on a treadmill, with walking rest, at what you described as your lactate threshold. I think it is impossible that your lactate threshold has improved that much in the meantime.

03.10: I did 18x800 @03:15min/km (treadmill+incline=equal to 03:05min/km 0% track by oxygen consumption theory)

08.10 I did 10x1600 @03:20min/km (treadmill+incline=equal to 03:13min/km on 0% track by oxygen consumption theory) - hardest workout during treadmill time.

BZ wrote:

Canefis, thanks for this thread, I am following it with interest. Did you take a lactate test to see at which HR your threshold pace is?

A question nobody seem to have asked, which I think is relevan for our understanding: what did you do in your cycling career?

I wanted to buy lactatometer plus. As I am not elite runner, do I really need it?

Why did you decide that I have lack of aerobic base? On almost every LT workouts (600-800-1000-1200-1600) on treadmill we could not rise pulse above 88% sufficient time.

Before JS coaching, I ran a lot easy and mostly easy-99% (7 months=1700km+1200km bike easy runs) + 3 years cycling training with 80% time easy (zone 1-2).

When disbalance between weak muscles and heart will disappear, most probably progress will stop, and than need more volume in order to going further.

All workouts, of course are not a predictors, only races are valuable.

I don't think you have a weak aerobic base. By 'aerobic strength' I meant the ability to hold quite a fast aerobic pace for a long time. I see no evidence so far that you can do this currently, hence why I suggested an hour's tempo training session to see where you are. I can understand that you might not want to do a time trial, but long tempos are great training for a marathon, so there's nothing to lose.

Canefis wrote:

BZ wrote:

Canefis, thanks for this thread, I am following it with interest. Did you take a lactate test to see at which HR your threshold pace is?

A question nobody seem to have asked, which I think is relevan for our understanding: what did you do in your cycling career?

I wanted to buy lactatometer plus. As I am not elite runner, do I really need it?

When I`m the coach no need for measuring lactate. I know my stuff and handle what heart tells. :)

You now seem to follow some guess of which hr your threshold may be. A single test in a lab of 150-200 euro will give you a much better guess.

If you do your LT training a few beats too high week in week out you will get into trouble

BZ wrote:

You now seem to follow some guess of which hr your threshold may be. A single test in a lab of 150-200 euro will give you a much better guess.

If you do your LT training a few beats too high week in week out you will get into trouble

Ok, so, everybody here has test results in a lab and lactatometer in their pocket to ready for test every single reps during workout...only me is noob and old school? Come on guys...? ....few beats too high...??

I am not trolling, lactate test is useful tool, but do I really need it as a amateur....?

highhoppingworm wrote:

In fairness... I follow canefis on Strava. I do think he can break 3 in early 2021. I think he also has a shot at sub 2:50 and maybe a serious stretch goal of 2:45 if things progress well. In order to do this he will have to ramp up volume and do a lot more marathon specific work.

He runs 65 miles a week at around 7 minute pace with occasional workouts currently. He also has a background in cycling and, it seems, a reasonably well developed aerobic system.

My guess on current fitness:

5k - mid 16s

10 - low 34s

HM - 1:19

Marathon - 2:58

He can just "jog" a marathon race in 2:58 right now! ))

could be wrong wrote:

I don't think you have a weak aerobic base. By 'aerobic strength' I meant the ability to hold quite a fast aerobic pace for a long time. I see no evidence so far that you can do this currently, hence why I suggested an hour's tempo training session to see where you are. I can understand that you might not want to do a time trial, but long tempos are great training for a marathon, so there's nothing to lose.

Understood, but we just started, only 2 months passed. 800-1000-1200-1600 reps, long tempo's maybe will be in the future of my training, I follow coach weekly plan.

10K TT is planned for November.

2 months we worked on muscles and did LT reps, but faced with low pulse, so every 1/2 week increased pace with continue using short reps (800-1600). And did one marathon specific workout: 120min easy@04:25 + 21min (1min@03:20/1min@04:25).

Before JS coaching I did 3 weeks in a row:

Long run-42.2km; 30km; 30 km

With JS Coach long runs - 27km; 32km; 26km and 8-10 of medium long runs for 2 months.

Sure thing coach. Whatever you say!