Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

Kip Litton might sue us all for destroying his business and reputation. He might have no case but do it anyway just to create controversy. That's my guess.

Mike blowers wrote:

Has anyone in Michigan managed to spot Kip and ask him in a nice way what went on at the time and the whys?

Several writers have conducted full interviews with him. Although I've heard bits from them, I haven't seen any of them yet.

Average Joseph wrote:

Several writers have conducted full interviews with him. Although I've heard bits from them, I haven't seen any of them yet.

Haha, good one. Name ONE.

I haven't seen any such interviews.

No new news for time being... This thread lost it at about p80

FlintTown wrote:

The reporter in question was obviously not aware of the issues with Kip when he wrote the article. When he found out he was not happy.

He would have a harder time writing about Kip's misadventures for the Flint Journal because of Libel concerns. You can get away with it on the internet but it is much harder in print.

Bill Khan, the reporter, is a decent runner in his own right. He has run 3:15 or so for the marathon which isn't half bad for a guy in his late 40s. He is just as annoyed as the rest of us about Kip's antics.

If libel concerns were an issue in print (more risky than website), then wouldn't Sage Canaday be risking libel mentioning kip in his book Running with the Hansons?

It seems Bill Khan is convinced he'd been had, but Dan Baxley is still one of Kip's "supporters," but I don't think Dan will talk to the media.I guess despite holding an MBA from Northwestern Kellogg school of management, he isn't smart enough to realize he's been had as well.

dukerdog wrote:

Junk Master wrote:

Let me submit that what makes this such a fascinating story is precisely the disconnect between all the FOKL(friends of KipLitton), who insist he's a great guy and the undisputed fact he's a complete WACK JOB who compulsively cheated in races with no discernable motive besides puffing up his own ego.

The posts on here praising Kip's moral character have been written by one of three people/groups:

1. Kip

2. Kip's friends/family

3. Random posters farting around with the thread

Most of us have figured out that #3 is by far the most likely. I very much doubt any of his friends/family have posted here, other than Dan Baxley of course.

To some extent

overlooking wrote:

There have been some interesting points here but from my own experience I have never cheated but I have been disqualified from more than several races. It depends on the reason- not all DQs are alike. I wish mine hadn't happened, but it wasn't a big deal & there is no shame. My DQs involved making wrong turns, leaving the course to take a dump and actually one time was DQd along with dozens of others who all made the same wrong turn.

Don't mean to threadcrap here, just looking through the last few pages of this thread today and this popped out. Seriously? You have been DQ'd at MORE THAN SEVERAL RACES? That strikes me as incredibly hard to imagine. I've done 700+ races in my career; running, cycling (road and mountain), triathlons, XC skiing. I've won races and I've finished last. I've never had a DQ, never even took a penalty for drafting or other rules violations in a tri. I've had a couple DNS's and a few DNF's as probably everyone here has, but no DQ's.

I've been a coach and an official the last 11 years, college level. Over that time I can recall 1 XC race out of ~150 I've been at in which some competitors were DQ'd for going the wrong way. That's 25,000+ finishers, ~6 DQ's. On the skiing side I can recall 3 DQ's in 11 years, two for competitors skating in a classic race (one was clearly inadvertent, but captured on video, one I'm not sure the circumstance) and one for a competitor who skied down the wrong lane at the lap/finish area and cut the course by a few feet in a 20k. That's nearly 19,000 finishers, 3 DQ's.

As an event producer I probably dole out 3-5 DQ's/year out of 6000-7000 finishers at our events, usually for cutting the course. I've been producing events regularly since 2001 and sporadically before that going back to the late 1980's. I can't think of 1 person that I've DQ'd more than once.

With my coach and event producer hat on, I'd be interested in hearing more from you about how one goes about being DQ'd more than several times. These are things I'd want to teach my racers to watch out for. For example, how does one get DQ'd for "leaving the course to take a dump"? As long as you come back to the course at the same place you left it, this should not be a DQable action.

overlooking wrote:

There have been some interesting points here but from my own experience I have never cheated but I have been disqualified from more than several races. It depends on the reason- not all DQs are alike. I wish mine hadn't happened, but it wasn't a big deal & there is no shame. My DQs involved making wrong turns, leaving the course to take a dump and actually one time was DQd along with dozens of others who all made the same wrong turn.

Its easy to get distracted.

Good point, Coach but I think the OP was trying to be satirical-- or it was just a lame trolling attempt.

The only defense for being DQed in MULTIPLE races is some sort of personality disorder; which is another reason this thread has such legs.

Kip uses anesthetic and drills on a daily basis, on children no less; yet, inexplicably has cheated again, and again, and again in marathons.

Now that his cheating has been exposed to the world, he remains silent, without apology or explanation.

Ace Ventura loooosssseerrrrrrr wrote:

The posts on here praising Kip's moral character have been written by one of three people/groups:

1. Kip

2. Kip's friends/family

3. Random posters farting around with the thread

Most of us have figured out that #3 is by far the most likely. I very much doubt any of his friends/family have posted here, other than Dan Baxley of course.

I think there's a fair bit of 1 & 2 going on, too. I followed the Delaware RD's blog a while back and after he DQ'd Kip and wrote about it, he was suddenly aggressively attacked on nearly every thread he wrote. So much so, that he took his blog down. Almost certainly those posts came from Kip & Company and were intended to silence his critics through a campaign of intimidation. I think he gave it a go here, too, but didn't realize just how determined the LR crowd can be when they get juiced over something.

Why he isn't smart enough to come clean, apologize, put this behind him and get back to running is baffling.

Junk Master wrote:

Good point, Coach but I think the OP was trying to be satirical-- or it was just a lame trolling attempt.

The only defense for being DQed in MULTIPLE races is some sort of personality disorder; which is another reason this thread has such legs.

Kip uses anesthetic and drills on a daily basis, on children no less; yet, inexplicably has cheated again, and again, and again in marathons.

Now that his cheating has been exposed to the world, he remains silent, without apology or explanation.

Meanwhile, in other news...

Junk Master wrote:

Good point, Coach but I think the OP was trying to be satirical-- or it was just a lame trolling attempt.

The only defense for being DQed in MULTIPLE races is some sort of personality disorder; which is another reason this thread has such legs.

Kip uses anesthetic and drills on a daily basis, on children no less; yet, inexplicably has cheated again, and again, and again in marathons.

Now that his cheating has been exposed to the world, he remains silent, without apology or explanation.

Im not sure if this holds so just want to point out that this is speculation. But i think There is some evidence that Litton may have (if any truth to it) committed criminal offense given the 10000 Wayne Kursh (delaware director) mentioned went unaccounted for. If this is true wouldnt it be criminal? Also some of the races he likely cheated in but was never DQ, such as Rochester, had a 300 prize for the top master ( kip was top master I recall). At Missoula, had kip not been caught and DQ for cheating, he wouldve walked away with a wine basket and gift certificate. So this is no joke. Yes you might say who cares about a 3hr hobbyjogger, but this story is fascinating on so many levels. You have an active licensed dentist who's made up a marathon in West Wyoming and won it.

I dont know about the potential disciplinary actions on a DDS dental license, but with some licenses like bar and CFA/ CPA, i know that if you are convicted of a crime that is punishable by a year or more in prison (even if you spend no time in prison), you can have your license suspended/revoked. Again I don't know what the potential consequences are for a medical/dental license.

No attorney here but a cursory reading of some health law shows in most states misdemeanor convictions must "directly relate to occupation," to cause license suspension.

So I don't think the wine basket and gift certificate will cut it.

Does anyone know what the prize structure was for the imaginary West Wyoming Marathon?

Junk Master wrote:

No attorney here but a cursory reading of some health law shows in most states misdemeanor convictions must "directly relate to occupation," to cause license suspension.

So I don't think the wine basket and gift certificate will cut it.

Does anyone know what the prize structure was for the imaginary West Wyoming Marathon?

The other participants didn't exist (at west Wyoming) so I don't think there were any prizes.

So if you get busted for DUI or reckless driving or assault can you lose a medical license? Embezzlement?

I want to hear about some other fictitious races the Kipster has won. Come on Kip give us another website or another 'race' to scrutinise.

Is it too late for me to offer an imaginary Million dollars for imaginary first place at the imaginary West Wyoming Marathon?

Its the gesture that's important I think and I see this as putting West Wyoming firmly on the Imaginary Marathon Majors Map.

Phil McAvity wrote:

I want to hear about some other fictitious races the Kipster has won. Come on Kip give us another website or another 'race' to scrutinise.

West wyoming is his win. But I think he pulled off top3 at fictitious Sandy springs and Pine Hills.

his best performance from a fitness standpoint was coming in 2nd overall and sub3hrs at 2009 new Mexico marathon (very suspicious as it was at 5000-6000ft above sea level - portions of course in Albuquerque I think). If I recall correctly, when you take his 2nd place finish at New Mexico and convert it to sea level, it converts to a huge "PR " in the mid to high 2:40s. Looks like it gives him a jack Daniels VDOT of 60-61. No other performance of his shows off his fitness more than that one (if he indeed ran that time). Heck it suggests he could possibly break 17 in 5k and run faster than the 17:17 he pulled at BAA 5k in 2010 (4:04 chip/gun differential). He adapted to racing at altitude very well indeed.

If New Mexico marathon is at 6000ft elevation and kip ran a 2:57:54 net, that converts to a 2:47:43 at sea level.

http://www.ccrtiming.com/races/results/2009/09NMMarathon.htm