Israel plans to move all non Jews out of Gaza.
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wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians elected Hamas. Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel a majority and complete control over Gaza.Hamas official: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land … October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000. What we are doing is justified.”
Gazans elected Hamas in 2006, but elections have not been held since. Recent polling shows that a majority of Gazans can't stand Hamas, opposed the Hamas attack on 10/7 and are sick of calls to annihilate the state of Israel. They have lived under Hamas rule for 17 years, and most don't like it. ."Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas’s October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel. A clear majority (77 percent) of those who provided this response were also supporters of Hamas, amounting to around 15 percent of the adult population."
People in Gaza are basically just trapped. They can't rise up themselves to overthrow Hamas. Palestinian support for Hamas is not what's keeping Hamas in power. Iran is what's keeping Hamas in power.
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wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians elected Hamas. Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel a majority and complete control over Gaza.Hamas official: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land … October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000. What we are doing is justified.”
Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified? But let me not put words in your mouth. You tell us what's your tolerance level for wiping out Palestinians. If there could be some miraculous guarantee that Hamas will be wiped out (note even the IDF doesn't think it's doable), at what number of dead Palestinians would you be comfortable for this mission to keep going?
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
You can't convince irrational people to being irrational using reason.
*You can't convince irrational people to be rational using reason.
Is this your dumb POD?
Killing 10,000 civilians (don't worry, we are getting there soon enough) as revenge for the death of 1,400 civilians is not rational. Risking a regional war and potentially many more dead Israelis for revenge is not rational. Creating the humanitarian conditions for much worse terrorism is not rational. Dropping bombs on the bad guys who have prized hostages is not rational.
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On the death counts....let's compare the two conflicts going on now.
Around 10,000 UKR civilians have died in almost two *years* of war with maybe the third most powerful army on earth. And that's with RU targeting civilians in UKR cities with missile strikes and an active land war in the eastern part of the country.
You would believe that we are nearing that toll of Gazans in...around two weeks. The 'official' death toll of gazans from Gazan officials is 8000+ and no doubt will pass 10,000 next week at the latest.
I'd like you to be extremely hesitant accepting any number in this war. I'm no expert, and neither are you, but our BS meters should be up and going at max strength right now.
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Trollminator wrote:
wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians elected Hamas. Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel a majority and complete control over Gaza.Hamas official: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land … October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000. What we are doing is justified.”
Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified? But let me not put words in your mouth. You tell us what's your tolerance level for wiping out Palestinians. If there could be some miraculous guarantee that Hamas will be wiped out (note even the IDF doesn't think it's doable), at what number of dead Palestinians would you be comfortable for this mission to keep going?
*hint - if you say as many as it takes you are a broken human being
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agip wrote:
On the death counts....let's compare the two conflicts going on now.
Around 10,000 UKR civilians have died in almost two *years* of war with maybe the third most powerful army on earth. And that's with RU targeting civilians in UKR cities with missile strikes and an active land war in the eastern part of the country.
You would believe that we are nearing that toll of Gazans in...around two weeks. The 'official' death toll of gazans from Gazan officials is 8000+ and no doubt will pass 10,000 next week at the latest.
I'd like you to be extremely hesitant accepting any number in this war. I'm no expert, and neither are you, but our BS meters should be up and going at max strength right now.
I am confident the numbers are inflated but that they are being realized more and more as the days pass and the humanitarian conditions worsen and bombings continue. 2.3 million people crammed into a small zone - there is no comparison to UKR. I am horrified if the numbers are half of what we are hearing from Palestinians.. and I cannot imagine they are less than half.. not even Israel is saying the numbers aren't bad. But again, why not let reporters inside Gaza? No electricity, no internet... doesn't that make you scratch your head?
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Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
On the death counts....let's compare the two conflicts going on now.
Around 10,000 UKR civilians have died in almost two *years* of war with maybe the third most powerful army on earth. And that's with RU targeting civilians in UKR cities with missile strikes and an active land war in the eastern part of the country.
You would believe that we are nearing that toll of Gazans in...around two weeks. The 'official' death toll of gazans from Gazan officials is 8000+ and no doubt will pass 10,000 next week at the latest.
I'd like you to be extremely hesitant accepting any number in this war. I'm no expert, and neither are you, but our BS meters should be up and going at max strength right now.
I am confident the numbers are inflated but that they are being realized more and more as the days pass and the humanitarian conditions worsen and bombings continue. 2.3 million people crammed into a small zone - there is no comparison to UKR. I am horrified if the numbers are half of what we are hearing from Palestinians.. and I cannot imagine they are less than half.. not even Israel is saying the numbers aren't bad. But again, why not let reporters inside Gaza? No electricity, no internet... doesn't that make you scratch your head?
Even the US had to backtrack a bit and start talking about humanitarian aid. They know the scale of the loss of life in Gaza is looking terrible. The lopsidedness of this is just insane, and no indication of the effectiveness of this strategy. Besides the number of deaths, the cruelty is clear and problematic - they are inflicting total misery on Gazans.
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racham84 wrote:
wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians elected Hamas. Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel a majority and complete control over Gaza.Hamas official: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land … October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000. What we are doing is justified.”
Gazans elected Hamas in 2006, but elections have not been held since. Recent polling shows that a majority of Gazans can't stand Hamas, opposed the Hamas attack on 10/7 and are sick of calls to annihilate the state of Israel. They have lived under Hamas rule for 17 years, and most don't like it. ."Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas’s October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel. A clear majority (77 percent) of those who provided this response were also supporters of Hamas, amounting to around 15 percent of the adult population."
People in Gaza are basically just trapped. They can't rise up themselves to overthrow Hamas. Palestinian support for Hamas is not what's keeping Hamas in power. Iran is what's keeping Hamas in power.
The problem is the people are so deranged and jaded by their hatred for the Jews that even if Israel eradicates Hamas these people will just replace them with another terrorist group.
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Trollminator wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
*You can't convince irrational people to be rational using reason.
Is this your dumb POD?
Killing 10,000 civilians (don't worry, we are getting there soon enough) as revenge for the death of 1,400 civilians is not rational. Risking a regional war and potentially many more dead Israelis for revenge is not rational. Creating the humanitarian conditions for much worse terrorism is not rational. Dropping bombs on the bad guys who have prized hostages is not rational.
We're no where close to 10,000 despite your most fervent wishes and your buddies in Hamas's best efforts.
Explain to me what a "surgical airstrike" is.
Explain to me how you think Israeli special forces are supposed to sneak into a city of MILLIONS of people who all hate them without lots of collateral damage.
Your position is entirely irrational.
You think like a toddler.
War is messy. War has ALWAYS been messy. Hamas rushes every injured kid they can find to a camera before they worry about treatment because they know PR and people like YOU are there strongest allies.
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Trollminator wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
I am confident the numbers are inflated but that they are being realized more and more as the days pass and the humanitarian conditions worsen and bombings continue. 2.3 million people crammed into a small zone - there is no comparison to UKR. I am horrified if the numbers are half of what we are hearing from Palestinians.. and I cannot imagine they are less than half.. not even Israel is saying the numbers aren't bad. But again, why not let reporters inside Gaza? No electricity, no internet... doesn't that make you scratch your head?
Even the US had to backtrack a bit and start talking about humanitarian aid. They know the scale of the loss of life in Gaza is looking terrible. The lopsidedness of this is just insane, and no indication of the effectiveness of this strategy. Besides the number of deaths, the cruelty is clear and problematic - they are inflicting total misery on Gazans.
The US killed a million civilians during WW2 while a tiny number of US civilians were killed. The US also had at least a 3-1 kill ratio against military opponents. Does that mean the US were the bad guys in WW2 because the deaths were disproportionate?
It's "insane" to think if you don't die as much as your enemy you're being inhumane.
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"Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified?"
This mere hyperbole devoid of facts or logic. Israel is painstakingly trying to avoid civilian casualties as it hunts down and destroys Hamas. They constantly tell the Palestinians to leave the areas that they target. This is what advanced, western democratic nations do.
Gaza Deaths are about 10K. Hamas hides among civilians so you can't prevent civilian deaths.
Palestinians = Hamas (SAME)
It's all evil and I in no way shed any tears as Israel responds.13 -
Trollminator wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
I am confident the numbers are inflated but that they are being realized more and more as the days pass and the humanitarian conditions worsen and bombings continue. 2.3 million people crammed into a small zone - there is no comparison to UKR. I am horrified if the numbers are half of what we are hearing from Palestinians.. and I cannot imagine they are less than half.. not even Israel is saying the numbers aren't bad. But again, why not let reporters inside Gaza? No electricity, no internet... doesn't that make you scratch your head?
Even the US had to backtrack a bit and start talking about humanitarian aid. They know the scale of the loss of life in Gaza is looking terrible. The lopsidedness of this is just insane, and no indication of the effectiveness of this strategy. Besides the number of deaths, the cruelty is clear and problematic - they are inflicting total misery on Gazans.
And they officially say they will keep slaughtering civilians.12 -
racham84 wrote:
wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians elected Hamas. Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel a majority and complete control over Gaza.Hamas official: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land … October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000. What we are doing is justified.”
Gazans elected Hamas in 2006, but elections have not been held since. Recent polling shows that a majority of Gazans can't stand Hamas, opposed the Hamas attack on 10/7 and are sick of calls to annihilate the state of Israel. They have lived under Hamas rule for 17 years, and most don't like it. ."Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas’s October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel. A clear majority (77 percent) of those who provided this response were also supporters of Hamas, amounting to around 15 percent of the adult population."
People in Gaza are basically just trapped. They can't rise up themselves to overthrow Hamas. Palestinian support for Hamas is not what's keeping Hamas in power. Iran is what's keeping Hamas in power.
Gazans know Israel is the enemy.
Iran has nothing to do with Hamas
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Newname wrote:
racham84 wrote:
Gazans elected Hamas in 2006, but elections have not been held since. Recent polling shows that a majority of Gazans can't stand Hamas, opposed the Hamas attack on 10/7 and are sick of calls to annihilate the state of Israel. They have lived under Hamas rule for 17 years, and most don't like it. ."Overall, 73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas’s October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel. A clear majority (77 percent) of those who provided this response were also supporters of Hamas, amounting to around 15 percent of the adult population."
People in Gaza are basically just trapped. They can't rise up themselves to overthrow Hamas. Palestinian support for Hamas is not what's keeping Hamas in power. Iran is what's keeping Hamas in power.
Gazans know Israel is the enemy.
Iran has nothing to do with Hamas
Pretend the Jews are brown. You'll see the whole thing completely differently.
32 -
wazzu1452 wrote:
"Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified?"This mere hyperbole devoid of facts or logic. Israel is painstakingly trying to avoid civilian casualties as it hunts down and destroys Hamas. They constantly tell the Palestinians to leave the areas that they target. This is what advanced, western democratic nations do.
Gaza Deaths are about 10K. Hamas hides among civilians so you can't prevent civilian deaths.
Palestinians = Hamas (SAME)
It's all evil and I in no way shed any tears as Israel responds.
LOLz. painstakingly.. really??? Telling 1 million Gazans to go south and join another 1 million Gazans, yet make sure they can't leave the strip??? Warn them about incoming strikes but they don't have electricity or internet, lol.
That's your moral failure here and why you have no credibility in this discussion. Palestinians = Hamas therefore it's game to kill them all. If your family was in the mix with bombs raining down on them you'd be more than shedding tears. But you believe Palestinians are sub-human. You don't share the supposed values of advanced western nations, but then again some of those nations are failing miserably at upholding their principles of human rights and international law.
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wazzu1452 wrote:
"Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified?"This mere hyperbole devoid of facts or logic. Israel is painstakingly trying to avoid civilian casualties as it hunts down and destroys Hamas. They constantly tell the Palestinians to leave the areas that they target. This is what advanced, western democratic nations do.
Gaza Deaths are about 10K. Hamas hides among civilians so you can't prevent civilian deaths.
Palestinians = Hamas (SAME)
It's all evil and I in no way shed any tears as Israel responds.
If there are too many white people in a movie about medieval Britain the left loses it's sh*t but Palestinian cartoons calling for death the Jews are perfectly excusable.
12 -
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Even the US had to backtrack a bit and start talking about humanitarian aid. They know the scale of the loss of life in Gaza is looking terrible. The lopsidedness of this is just insane, and no indication of the effectiveness of this strategy. Besides the number of deaths, the cruelty is clear and problematic - they are inflicting total misery on Gazans.
And they officially say they will keep slaughtering civilians.That's problem agip - one is a terrorist organization and the other is supposed to be a military run by a democratic nation. The actions are speaking loudly here and Israel is not looking very humane.. if we are at the point of comparing Hamas' brutality with the IDF, something is really broken.
11 -
Trollminator wrote:
wazzu1452 wrote:
"Therefore, if Israel needs to wipe out 2 million Palestinians to get rid of the muslim brotherhood ideology then it's justified?"This mere hyperbole devoid of facts or logic. Israel is painstakingly trying to avoid civilian casualties as it hunts down and destroys Hamas. They constantly tell the Palestinians to leave the areas that they target. This is what advanced, western democratic nations do.
Gaza Deaths are about 10K. Hamas hides among civilians so you can't prevent civilian deaths.
Palestinians = Hamas (SAME)
It's all evil and I in no way shed any tears as Israel responds.
LOLz. painstakingly.. really??? Telling 1 million Gazans to go south and join another 1 million Gazans, yet make sure they can't leave the strip??? Warn them about incoming strikes but they don't have electricity or internet, lol.
That's your moral failure here and why you have no credibility in this discussion. Palestinians = Hamas therefore it's game to kill them all. If your family was in the mix with bombs raining down on them you'd be more than shedding tears. But you believe Palestinians are sub-human. You don't share the supposed values of advanced western nations, but then again some of those nations are failing miserably at upholding their principles of human rights and international law.
Palestinians are burning babies alive in ovens while they gang rape their mothers to deaths and you're irate that Palestinians don't have wifi.
The moral failure is 100% on the side of you and your buddies in Hamas.
"Advanced western nations" were carpet bombing civilians the last time they thought their survival was at stake.
It's so easy for you ignorant fools to sit in your parent's basement and pass judgement on the world from perfect safety.
Hamas hides behind babies because people like YOU support them for doing it.
Every drop of blood spilled in Gaza is YOUR fault.
12 -
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Newname wrote:
Gazans know Israel is the enemy.
Iran has nothing to do with Hamas
Pretend the Jews are brown. You'll see the whole thing completely differently.
Actually, about 60 percent of Israelis are of Middle Eastern or North African descent, which includes Jews who came to Israel from Arab countries (about 35-40 percent) and Arab citizens of Israel. Ethiopian Jews also comprise about 2 percent of Israel's total population, so skin color really has nothing to do with this conflict.
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