Lydiard Imitations

We are going out of the track of the main debate, but if you want and as you did accuse me, no problem.

I don´t know how is the authourship in the mountains where you live, what i know is that everything that i write and i quote quote i´m authorized to quote.

The more if you did read something similar on the free internet that might be similar to what i did write, and as i see, it´s free access, it´s because anyone can copy and past, everyone is authourized copy, past, quote, plagiarise etc. or on the mountains the internet copywrite law is different than on my internet ?

Why don´tr you ask to process me, try to process me !

About Lydiard, it´s what´s really matters, you don´t add nothing to the debate.

This is a good thread with some related info in it.

and

and

I prefer to write my own personal thoughts and not copy other peoples just so i can sound knowledgeable. It's as simple as that really. You are discredited as an authority and now exist merely as a curiosity.

And i've added plenty of thoughts about Lydiard. Many, many. But since you barely read what i say you have probably missed them.

You are so annoying that i actually take some heart that you understand all of this coaching business so poorly you will never have any success. Then i think about all the athletes you are going to ruin and realise this problem is a lot bigger than you.

best of luck anyway, i'm always hopeful the fools will wake up some day.

gypsy wrote:

When you say 45 mins in training was this continuous steady state or is this the length of time the intervals took? And i thought he ran the long reps, possibly up to 2000m, in sets even if it was just two. Interesting about those fartek like sessions he used for race prep. It would be the other way around now in the training process. What other sessions do you know of that they did?

Well I was not there of course, but can imagine from doing similar training long ago, that it went something like this, 20 minutes slow, walk around, 600 meters fast, walk around to recover, jog 10 minutes slow, walk around talk to coach, get ready, 500 meters fast, walk around to recover, jog 10 minutes slow, walk around, 300 meters fast ect etc.

Again, this was NOT intervals. It was metabolism training, and I beleive that Gersler, Reindell etc refered to this as metabolism training. Indeed Lydiard used some metabolism training too, and I believe he did not use much interval training. As far as I know when Harbig ran 1500 or 1000 they were single efforts and not repeats.

A note in passing that Otis Davis, 400m gold medalist and WR 44.9 at Rome 1960 ran up to 15 miles in his preparation for the 400m, nothing to do with Gershler but showing that others did the long runs prior to 1960, even 400m sprinters.

gypsy wrote:

This is a typical training day taken from Harbig's Diary:

40 mins easy running; 1x2,000m; 20mins jog; 2x1,000m; 12mins jog; 2x600m; 12mins

jog; 2x300m; 8mins jog; 1x200m; 6mins jog; 1x100m; 10mins jog.

[/quote]http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/gerschler-interval-training-811513/[/quote]

I had not seen this before but it makes sense and fits the pattern, being farther out from the important competition.

A method often used was called "gradual drawing up", where more training was done like above, then reduce prior to important competitions, as mentioned before.

This differs from Lydiard, who would have none of the above training in off season. Gershler's training was more like Renato Canova uses today, though Harbig was a 400/800 runner.

J.R. wrote:

40 mins easy running; 1x2,000m; 20mins jog; 2x1,000m; 12mins jog; 2x600m; 12mins

jog; 2x300m; 8mins jog; 1x200m; 6mins jog; 1x100m; 10mins jog.

[/quote]http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/gerschler-interval-training-811513/

I had not seen this before but it makes sense and fits the pattern, being farther out from the important competition.

A method often used was called "gradual drawing up", where more training was done like above, then reduce prior to important competitions, as mentioned before.

This differs from Lydiard, who would have none of the above training in off season. Gershler's training was more like Renato Canova uses today, though Harbig was a 400/800 runner.[/quote]

I would love to see a full year schedule. It would explain so much.

So this gradual drawing up process was when the proportion of this type of session and the standard type of session began to change. And as this session became more and more over the total training load this type of session became shorter and shorter as it approaches competition. So we see more than just a modulation of intensity and volume. We see another type of session assisting competition preparation. And we have this idea is is somehow involved in drawing up which could refer to drawing up the condition from preparation levels to competition levels.

The stuff i've see on the standard session simple outlines certain rules. Like this play between the four variables of distance of repetition, duration of recovery interval, pace of the repetition and number of repetitions. And that race pace was to be the pace of the repetitions. So this determined the other three variables. The other rules like length of repetition was to remain the same within the session has come out of this casual internet research. Work interval was the be done to 180bpm and the recovery interval to 120bpm.

Anyway that's what i've got so far. You don't have a standard session template do you?

here are some quotes from Nobby

Japan's Ugachi just ran 27:40 and set the domestic all-Japanese best time. Japanese, as you know, do not have much physical advantage of Africans OR even cacasions--we just don't have luxury of other "races". Ugachi is a graduate of Komazawa University which is one of the strong forces for Hakone Ekiden. Ugachi was one of their star runners in the early 2000s, just graduated a year or two ago. Komazawa is led by coach Ohyagi who, in the late 1990s, coached former Japanese national marathon record holder, Fujita, as well as 2:08 runner, Nishida. Komazawa had been struggling to put the whole team together to enjoy Hakone victory for the last 10 years or so but it's still very solid team. Coach Ohyagi is a big fan of Lydiard and building big aerobic base as foundation "first"[/quote]

gypsy wrote:

I prefer to write my own personal thoughts and not copy other peoples just so i can sound knowledgeable. It's as simple as that really. You are discredited as an authority and now exist merely as a curiosity.

And i've added plenty of thoughts about Lydiard. Many, many. But since you barely read what i say you have probably missed them.

You are so annoying that i actually take some heart that you understand all of this coaching business so poorly you will never have any success. Then i think about all the athletes you are going to ruin and realise this problem is a lot bigger than you.

best of luck anyway, i'm always hopeful the fools will wake up some day.

Wow! Earlier you trashed me....and now I feel good about it, if this is the kind of thing you say to Antonio. I'll say it again: You will never get anywhere in your explorations when you treat people this way.

Skuj wrote:

Wow! Earlier you trashed me....and now I feel good about it, if this is the kind of thing you say to Antonio. I'll say it again: You will never get anywhere in your explorations when you treat people this way.

How did i trash you?

I'd also like to add that the title of this thread is HILARIOUS when you read the OP (which by itself is fine) then see his "motivations" throughout the thread.

gypsy wrote:

Can we discuss Lydiardism through the eyes of coaches and athletes who follow his methodology?

I have experimented at length and researched thoroughly and would like to bounce my thinking around with other like minded people.

gypsy

gypsy wrote:

Skuj wrote:

Wow! Earlier you trashed me....and now I feel good about it, if this is the kind of thing you say to Antonio. I'll say it again: You will never get anywhere in your explorations when you treat people this way.

How did i trash you?

"It's letsruns greatest troll." But nevermind that. Vigorous debate is one thing, but trashing Antonio as a coach? WHAT? Do you have a clue? Reveal thyself and talk about your coaching so that we can get personal with you too.

Skuj wrote:

I'd also like to add that the title of this thread is HILARIOUS when you read the OP (which by itself is fine) then see his "motivations" throughout the thread.

And what is this mysterious motivation oh wounded one?

Skuj wrote:

"It's letsruns greatest troll."

I thought it was this. You don't see that i used to appreciate you a lot when i was on here a few years ago. I liked your straight up analysis of situations and your no holds barred approach. but above all it lended a lightheartedness to the threads. Admittedly you are frustrating when it's clear your only intention is character assassination and thread derailment like this one.

But nevermind that. Vigorous debate is one thing, but trashing Antonio as a coach? WHAT? Do you have a clue? Reveal thyself and talk about your coaching so that we can get personal with you too.

Ok before you go any further you really should read this thread a little more closely. At the start i was interested in interacting with someone i thought knew about coaching. Since then he has only proven he doesn't, time after time, question after question, in fact most of the time he is announcing himself really. Go check it out. The final straw was his attempted plagiarism, which would have been plagiarism except he was caught.

Good God, I've been reading the thread, and I have not concluded from it that: a) Antonio knows nothing about coaching; and b) Antonio plagiarised (he has a very logical explanation, but you don't care do you?).

And now I'm the character assassin and derailer just because I am concerned about your real motivation here (see the title of the thread) and your extremely personal/unfounded/invalid comments to certain people.

Find me one time where Antonio personally attacked anyone as you regularly do. Do it!

Skuj wrote:

Good God, I've been reading the thread, and I have not concluded from it that: a) Antonio knows nothing about coaching; and b) Antonio plagiarised (he has a very logical explanation, but you don't care do you?).

And now I'm the character assassin and derailer just because I am concerned about your real motivation here (see the title of the thread) and your extremely personal/unfounded/invalid comments to certain people.

They are founded. Based on what has been said in this thread, my opinion is well founded. Possibly you aren't a coach and therefore miss some of the nuances, but most of this isn't in the range of nuance, it is pretty plain to see.

I don't know where you see a different type of session. They look to me to both (all) be quite similar.

Harbig's training was not interval training, so it had nothing to do with the conventional 180/120 heart rates espoused at the time. Maybe Harbig's heart rates were 200 during effort and 90 during recovery. Interval training would be much more mild than this.

gypsy wrote:

Just so horribly biased you can't see beyond the end of your own nose.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

And for all I said about Antonio earlier being anti-Lydiard and unnecessarily forceful in trying to get everyone to go along with his assertions, I must say that you, gypsy, are worse. At least Antonio has some ideas of his own that warrant consideration, whereas you just try to bury everybody else's thoughts in paragraph after paragraph of verbal diarrhoea.

Do you read your posts aloud to yourself whilst admiring your reflection in a mirror prior to posting them?

J.R. wrote:

I don't know where you see a different type of session. They look to me to both (all) be quite similar.

I'm assuming that the standard session of say 20x200 off 60 seconds is different to that session. Didn't you even give it another name "gradual drawing up". Or are you saying there were no sessions that were just warmup and intervals.

Harbig's training was not interval training, so it had nothing to do with the conventional 180/120 heart rates espoused at the time. Maybe Harbig's heart rates were 200 during effort and 90 during recovery. Interval training would be much more mild than this.

So now i'm really confused. Gerschler was the interval man, Harbig was his first athlete. Are you saying all of the training was 'metabolism' training and none of it was 'interval' training.

Antoni-no wrote:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Where? I don't assert something i can't defend.

At least Antonio has some ideas of his own that warrant consideration

I've asked Antonio continuously throughout this thread for his own opinion. Time and time again i've asked him questions to find out his opinion. Yet he doesn't answer them. In the end he decided it was easier to plagiarise than use his own words. What's with that? And what's with having a go at me when he is doing that sort of thing.

whereas you just try to bury everybody else's thoughts in paragraph after paragraph of verbal diarrhoea.

This is probably true. Perhaps i will need less words to express myself in the future.

Do you read your posts aloud to yourself whilst admiring your reflection in a mirror prior to posting them?[/quote]