Why do you even enter these discussions when all you're doing is making it obvious that you don't even follow the sport? You're saying Cheptegei has multiple global 5k golds when he has a single global gold and that he doesn't "keep losing to other runners" when he lost at Rio, lost at Eugene and didn't bother to show up at Paris? He doesn't even have a global silver or bronze medal in the 5k.
Is Van Niekerk still the best 400m runner because he has the world record when he hasn't finished on the podium globally since 2017?
I'm not measuring Cheptegei against Ingebrigtsen solely on championship medals - although his 10k gold was more impressive than Ingebrigtsen's 5k gold. In the 5k Cheptegei's record is the length of the straight ahead of Ingebrigtsen's best. In this sport, times matter. In equivalent terms, Ingebrigtsen is a 3:30ish 1500 runner who has won a couple of slow tactical finals being compared with a runner who has run 3:26. That gap needs to be bridged before they can be at least considered equals in that event.
And since you don't apply these requirements to Farah we know that you don't actually believe this but is just changing the goal posts after it's pointed out that you're lying about things that requires a 5 second look on Wikipedia to verify.
Why has Cheptegei with his blazing speed finished 8th at Rio, 9th at Eugene and didn't even bother to show up at Paris and Doha in the "slow, tactical races" that Jakob is unbeaten in?
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Why do you even enter these discussions when all you're doing is making it obvious that you don't even follow the sport? You're saying Cheptegei has multiple global 5k golds when he has a single global gold and that he doesn't "keep losing to other runners" when he lost at Rio, lost at Eugene and didn't bother to show up at Paris? He doesn't even have a global silver or bronze medal in the 5k.
Is Van Niekerk still the best 400m runner because he has the world record when he hasn't finished on the podium globally since 2017?
I'm not measuring Cheptegei against Ingebrigtsen solely on championship medals - although his 10k gold was more impressive than Ingebrigtsen's 5k gold. In the 5k Cheptegei's record is the length of the straight ahead of Ingebrigtsen's best. In this sport, times matter. In equivalent terms, Ingebrigtsen is a 3:30ish 1500 runner who has won a couple of slow tactical finals being compared with a runner who has run 3:26. That gap needs to be bridged before they can be at least considered equals in that event.
Kerr was a 3:29 runner before the final this year in Paris, yet you still considered him a better 1500m runner than 3:26 man Jakob. What are your thoughts on that?
Yobes Ondieki has made no progress in 10 years. Then finally improved from 28:25.44 to 26:58 38 while becoming the first under 27 minutes.
Ingebrigtsen in fact got slower every season in the last years.
As far as I am aware Ingebrigtsen and Ondieki are two different athletes. (I would also estimate that Ondieki's spectacular improvement after 10 years of no progress wasn't naturally achieved).
Two different athletes? Are you sure? Grest contribution to the thread- as always.
Do you even know Ondieki? From 28:25.44 in 83 to 26:58.38 in 93. No PB in between. Do you have an explanation for that?
It's funny that Armstronglivs thinks Jakob isn't the best 1500m runner in the world despite being the fastest but thinks Cheptegei is a superior 5000m runner to Jakob even with his losing record. Double standards at its finest.
Cheptegei doesn't keep losing consecutive championship titles like Ingebrigtsen does. He also has the wr over the distance - as well as the 10k. Ingebrigtsen doesn't have the 1500 wr and gets his butt kicked in the biggest races. There's the difference.
En contraire Cheptegei has not won a world title in the 5k since 2021. Since we all know if Jakob scratched in the 1500 you would count that as losing the championship we will use the same logic for the guy you are defending who I will note you accused of doping sever times in the past.
Yes, that's the point, you choose which metrics are valid when they favor the runner you want to claim is better than Jakob. Both Farah and Cheptegei can't be better than Jakob if you're going to argue a faster PB but fewer titles makes Cheptegei better than Jakob and a slower PB but more titles makes Farah better than Jakob.
I choose the metrics that are relevant. It appears you can't follow that.
But you changing the goal posts is their point. You say Farah is better cause of champs and Cheptegei is better cause of times. Jakob has a balance of both.
I'm not measuring Cheptegei against Ingebrigtsen solely on championship medals - although his 10k gold was more impressive than Ingebrigtsen's 5k gold. In the 5k Cheptegei's record is the length of the straight ahead of Ingebrigtsen's best. In this sport, times matter. In equivalent terms, Ingebrigtsen is a 3:30ish 1500 runner who has won a couple of slow tactical finals being compared with a runner who has run 3:26. That gap needs to be bridged before they can be at least considered equals in that event.
And since you don't apply these requirements to Farah we know that you don't actually believe this but is just changing the goal posts after it's pointed out that you're lying about things that requires a 5 second look on Wikipedia to verify.
Why has Cheptegei with his blazing speed finished 8th at Rio, 9th at Eugene and didn't even bother to show up at Paris and Doha in the "slow, tactical races" that Jakob is unbeaten in?
Round and round your tedious mulberry bush you guy. Such irrelevant garbage. Not only is Cheptegei an Olympic champion he holds the world records over two championship distances, which Ingebrigtsen doesn't, and the Norwegian has shown he simply isn't in the same league as a distance runner. Timewise he is a full length of the straight slower over the 5k and considerably more than a lap behind in the 10000. He will never bridge that to match Cheptegei. That the Ugandan didn't race Ingebrigtsen in certain events doesn't change that.
As for Farah, he ran in a different era but his championship record is something Ingebrigtsen could only dream of and will never achieve in the championship distances of the 5k and 10k.
So whether the calculus is times or championship victories Ingebrigtsen is simply not in the same class as the best distance runners and never will be. They aren't his events.
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Hate to say it but it is not the Dunning-Kruger effect if the vast majority of people feel the same way.
You clearly haven't followed the American elections then. No better example. Dumbest on the planet. And so many of them. Group conformity can show the opposite of intelligence. As here.
I choose the metrics that are relevant. It appears you can't follow that.
But you changing the goal posts is their point. You say Farah is better cause of champs and Cheptegei is better cause of times. Jakob has a balance of both.
He can't match either, as Cheptegei kills him on times and Farah in global victories.
Cheptegei doesn't keep losing consecutive championship titles like Ingebrigtsen does. He also has the wr over the distance - as well as the 10k. Ingebrigtsen doesn't have the 1500 wr and gets his butt kicked in the biggest races. There's the difference.
En contraire Cheptegei has not won a world title in the 5k since 2021. Since we all know if Jakob scratched in the 1500 you would count that as losing the championship we will use the same logic for the guy you are defending who I will note you accused of doping sever times in the past.
You don't actually know what you think you know. I don't say a runner lost if they don't race; only if they race and are beaten.
That's a little ambitious. Especially since you have said he has peaked every year since 2020.
I haven't said that. But since his fans here see no limits to his abilities 3:35 must be achievable for him. But then you don't know when an observation is serious or not.
As far as I am aware Ingebrigtsen and Ondieki are two different athletes. (I would also estimate that Ondieki's spectacular improvement after 10 years of no progress wasn't naturally achieved).
Two different athletes? Are you sure? Grest contribution to the thread- as always.
Do you even know Ondieki? From 28:25.44 in 83 to 26:58.38 in 93. No PB in between. Do you have an explanation for that?
Probably EPO, for which there was no effective test in the '90's.
I'm not measuring Cheptegei against Ingebrigtsen solely on championship medals - although his 10k gold was more impressive than Ingebrigtsen's 5k gold. In the 5k Cheptegei's record is the length of the straight ahead of Ingebrigtsen's best. In this sport, times matter. In equivalent terms, Ingebrigtsen is a 3:30ish 1500 runner who has won a couple of slow tactical finals being compared with a runner who has run 3:26. That gap needs to be bridged before they can be at least considered equals in that event.
Kerr was a 3:29 runner before the final this year in Paris, yet you still considered him a better 1500m runner than 3:26 man Jakob. What are your thoughts on that?
Jakob is not a 3:26 man, he has yet to match the wr. Kerr has beaten Ingebrigtsen in the last WC and Olympic final, as well as Prefontaine in a very respectable mile time. He now seems to have the measure of Ingebrigtsen when they race, as do more runners now with faster finishes than Ingebrigtsen. Ingebrigtsen still has the fastest time but if the two race the odds favour Kerr. In a paced time-trial Ingebrigtsen is ahead on times but he increasingly is being beaten in competitive races in his favoured event - and not just by Kerr. But that's an old thread.
- He has won an Olympic title in the 5k and A WC title,
Yeah, like Snell who has won an Olympic title.
Snell is the only runner other than Rudisha to defend his Olympic 800 title and the last to achieve the Olympic 800/1500 double. There was no WC in his era. Snell also held the records at championship distances (the mile was then the main race outside the Olympics). So nothing like him.
Snell is the only runner other than Rudisha to defend his Olympic 800 title and the last to achieve the Olympic 800/1500 double. There was no WC in his era. Snell also held the records at championship distances (the mile was then the main race outside the Olympics). So nothing like him.
Kerr was a 3:29 runner before the final this year in Paris, yet you still considered him a better 1500m runner than 3:26 man Jakob. What are your thoughts on that?
Jakob is not a 3:26 man, he has yet to match the wr. Kerr has beaten Ingebrigtsen in the last WC and Olympic final, as well as Prefontaine in a very respectable mile time. He now seems to have the measure of Ingebrigtsen when they race, as do more runners now with faster finishes than Ingebrigtsen. Ingebrigtsen still has the fastest time but if the two race the odds favour Kerr. In a paced time-trial Ingebrigtsen is ahead on times but he increasingly is being beaten in competitive races in his favoured event - and not just by Kerr. But that's an old thread.
What makes someone a 3:26 man? For sure not running 3:26 but setting the WR.
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