So you ask me for a definition of a woman, and I give you one that takes one sentence that a 1st grader could understand, and you redirect me to a 90+ minute movie that does not answer the question?
How is it hateful to refer to them as "biological males"? It's what they are.
Should trans 'women' be able to complete against "cis" women?
It's hateful because you know that it hurts their feelings, but you say it any way. It's like if you saw an overweight person and said, "How you doing, fat person?" That would be hateful. You'd be doing it for the expressed purpose of making that person feel bad. Just stop saying it. It's mean.
Trans women are women. Cis women are women. Women run against women, so yes, they should compete against one another. You are really struggling to answer some very basic questions here.
Women who have post-adolescent-male levels of testosterone are presumptively doped way beyond the gills. They don't get to compete against women. (At least not without serving a significant suspension during which they've established and maintained levels within a specific range. Some sports organizations have now said "never".)
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Reason provided:
expanded a thought
how about you focus on this as it pertains to athletics (since that it what this was originally about) and provide an explanation of what constitutes a female competitor? Additionally how do you suggest fairness is preserved in female sports for ALL competitors?
How is saying "a woman is anyone who identifies as such" not circular logic?
Can you define what a cat is for me? If I identify as a cat, am I a cat?
Do you really want to be a cat, with all the associated rights and privileges of one? Our neighbor’s cat was not allowed in the house and when it developed a tumor they euthanized the cat.
K-6 sports are not the Olympics or the FIFA World Cup. Parents often take them way too seriously. Let kids be kids before worrying about winning and losing.
Norway is the most successful country in Winter Olympics, and kids there do not engage in formal competitions until they are 14-15. It has not hurt their success in later years.
I asked you a very straightforward question in clear, plain English:
On what grounds do you think it's justified to deny female students fairness in track & field so long as they haven't made it to 7th grade yet?
Instead of answering what I asked, or even taking a moment to consider the question, you instead responded by immediately changing the subject to the Olympics, the FIFA World Cup and parents' attitudes.
Then you issued a banal bromide - "let kids be kids before worrying about winning and losing." A bromide that intentionally glosses over the fact that kids come in two sexes and which indicates you have little or no experience raising, taking care of, teaching, coaching or otherwise dealing with kids in real life for any length of time and observing their development as it unfolds day by day, week by week, month by month.
Fact is, it's normal and natural for kids of both sexes to be competitive and to seek out and really enjoy activities in which they get a chance to best others and to win.
There's no end to the activities that kids gravitate to starting at a young age becase they enjoy competing - and because they like to get chances to win. When kids win or pull off an impressive move or feat, they enoy the sense of accomplishment and pride it gives them - and most kid enjoy savoring, mentally replaying, and bragging and gloating about their noteworthy moves and wins too.
The activities kids enjoy competing in include informal physical contests similar to sports that kids engage in on their own to see who can run or walk the fastest; throw or bat the farthest and most accurately; jump, climb and fly a swing the highest; punch, kick and use sticks or toy swords to hit the hardest; knock down the most pins or other objects; jump rope the longest and most skillfully ... and a whole lot of other types of contests. Such as card games like Go Fish and Uno; board games like Chutes & Ladders, Monopoly, Trouble, checkers, chess, Battleship, Parcheesi, Clue; video games; spelling bees; jacks; marbles; pick-up-sticks; Jenga; guessing games; word games; and silly contests that kids make up all on their own to see who can hold their breath the longest, burp the loudest, make the worst-smelling farts, stay awake the longest, get the most and best-quality candy when trick-or-treating, collect the most and best baseball cards, Pokemon, beanie babies... and so on.
As for Norway, it's not true that kids in Norway "do not engage in formal competitions until they are 14-15."
Competition for youth in sports in Norway is not only allowed, it's promoted, with 93% of pre-teen children participating in organized sports. It's just that compeiton and winning are not pritiotized over development and participation. In Norway, there are no regional championships before 11, and no nationals before 13 - and there are also rules agaisnt publishing game scores, records and rankings for young kids.
But the issue relevant to the topic of this thread is that Norway's novel approach to youth sports certainly hasn't enabled Norway's female athletes to achieve parity with Norway's male athletes.
Since you brought up Norway's record of success at the winter Oympics: in the last Winter Olympics, Norway won 25 medals in men's events; 9 medals in women's events; and 3 medals in mixed-sex events. Given that the Norwegian population is pretty evenly divided by sex - meaning half female and half male - it's notable that Norwegian men won close to 3 medals for every 1 medal won by a Norwegian woman.
Also, google "athletes Norway" and "leading sports figures Norway" and similar terms, and all the lists and articles you'll get will skew heavily - indeed, predominantly - male:
If you are really this concerned about the outcomes of sports for children under the age of 12, then you have some serious issues. For the record, I played coed soccer until 8th grade and basketball until 6th grade in the 1990s without any issue or complaints. The results of the track and cross country races that I participated in were divided by sex, but most of the races themselves and all of the practices were mixed gender.
How is saying "a woman is anyone who identifies as such" not circular logic?
Can you define what a cat is for me? If I identify as a cat, am I a cat?
Probably not, but do you also wonder what’s next after gay marriage, people marrying their pets?
So neither you nor 'wise old man' (lol) have been able to definitively say for sure that by identifying as a cat you do not become one. Haha. Pretty clear the level of thinking we are attempting to reason with here.
I can define what a cat is without being a cat. I can also define what a woman is without being one.
So no, you cannot be a cat, but yes, you can be a gender other than defined by your birth sex. There is no inconsistency here.
oh you have answered that question now, when I responded above you hadn't yet. Please explain how one is able to become 'a gender other than their birth sex'. They can't. You can no more change your birth sex than you can become a cat. If you are defining 'gender' as stereotypical behavior, well yes one can always adopt different behaviors but it is purely sexism to define men and women by behavior. But I won't put words in your mouth. What is a woman? What is a man? Feel free to please explain in your own words.
Probably not, but do you also wonder what’s next after gay marriage, people marrying their pets?
So neither you nor 'wise old man' (lol) have been able to definitively say for sure that by identifying as a cat you do not become one. Haha. Pretty clear the level of thinking we are attempting to reason with here.
You are really making a serious argument that gender identity and species identity are equivalent? Good grief. Anyway, if your interested in the cat identity, I say go for it, I’ll try to accommodate you, but I think you’ll find that cats are treated pretty shabbily as compared to humans, so I don’t recommend it.
Just replace it with "normal" or "actual" to trigger them even more
Or 'real'
Yes, 'cis' is a slur, used when people want to stomp on women's rights. When they claim women don't deserve spaces of our own to be safe from males, they call us 'cis'. When they want to ruin the integrity of girls and women's sports they call us 'cis'. When we try to say that our biological realities as women matter, they call us 'cis' to try to shut us up. We are not 'ciswomen', we are women.
Anyone who thinks the term cis is a slur is the ultimate snowflake. Oh no! Someone accused me being a woman or a man whose gender matches my sex assigned at birth! I am deeply triggered and offended! Please, I need to run to my safe space and be protected from less than 1 percent of the population who accuse me of being cisgender!
So no, you cannot be a cat, but yes, you can be a gender other than defined by your birth sex. There is no inconsistency here.
oh you have answered that question now, when I responded above you hadn't yet. Please explain how one is able to become 'a gender other than their birth sex'. They can't. You can no more change your birth sex than you can become a cat. If you are defining 'gender' as stereotypical behavior, well yes one can always adopt different behaviors but it is purely sexism to define men and women by behavior. But I won't put words in your mouth. What is a woman? What is a man? Feel free to please explain in your own words.
I’m good with this explanation from the Yale School of Medicine. You’ll find nearly identical descriptions from the other leading medical institutions worldwide, the WHO, the NIH, etc.
As we pursue our work at Women's Health Research at Yale, it is particularly important to use language that captures the different concepts of sex and gender so
how about you focus on this as it pertains to athletics (since that it what this was originally about) and provide an explanation of what constitutes a female competitor? Additionally how do you suggest fairness is preserved in female sports for ALL competitors?
I already answered this. A female competitor is a competitor who identifies as female. Maybe check their drivers license or whatever their gender is stated at their school / employer.
Sports aren't fair, so there is no need to preserve fairness.
Exactly. And notice 'fickle' didn't even try to answer the question lol. They know they can't without being circular or just saying some extremely obviously sexist thing
How is it circular?
It's a simple If, then statement:
If a person says "I am a woman," then she is a woman.
/end
So if I say "I'm a woman, I'm a woman" ? Just like that ? Even if I'm the father of four children ?
You trans activists are delusional. Have fun, I'm outta here.
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