Stop lying to yourselves about ATHING MU, she has WR potential

ykjdtyk wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So you've been following the sport for 15 years. Whoop de do. I've been following it for nearly 60. I've seen quite a bit more than you. I wouldn't call myself a fan now. That would require ignoring everything I've learned about doping in professional sport and running especially.

Whoop de do!! And you know nothing at all about elite level training.

I know that it is regularly supplemented with doping these days.

rerunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Jelimo was juiced.

Utter rubbish. You are completely prejudiced.

And don't you dare compare Jelimo to obvious dopers like Kratochilova because that will further expose your prejudice

It has nothing to do with race. Jelimo jumped from 2.01x to 1.54.1 in only 4 months at the age of 18. She has never run faster. She is the only runner who has gotten anywhere near E Bloc times. I forgot - she is from Kenya, a country rife with doping.

ykjdtyk wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Kratochvilova is white. So are all the other E Bloc dopers and Russian women. Moron.

Sorry moron, I forgot to add that anyone who is not a native English speaker from one of your chosen countries is automatically a doper.

Shifting the ground because you don't have an argument of any kind. I don't have a "chosen country". You're still a moron.

i always thought jelimo was a DSD athlete like semenya and mutola.

Ellen van Langen clean?

Any runner that explode in a single season, then disappears is eligible to suspicion.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rerunner wrote:

Utter rubbish. You are completely prejudiced.

And don't you dare compare Jelimo to obvious dopers like Kratochilova because that will further expose your prejudice

It has nothing to do with race. Jelimo jumped from 2.01x to 1.54.1 in only 4 months at the age of 18. She has never run faster. She is the only runner who has gotten anywhere near E Bloc times. I forgot - she is from Kenya, a country rife with doping.

Thats your evidence?

So if a person comes close to breaking a record set by the Eastern Bloc runners, then they too must be doping? What poor logic. Its not implausible for a clean athlete to come close to breaking a dirty record.

Secondly, every country is rife with doping and there is no systematic doping in Kenya.

Thirdly Jelimo did not run the 800m at the youth level. She ran the 400m. She started to focus on the 800m when she reached 18. Thats why her times jumped.

Basically you have no solid arguments here.

As to why she had a short career, she explained that she quit working hard at age 19. Having grown up in absolute poverty, she suddenly made a lot of money and lost motivation after she made so much money by winning the golden jackpot. She invested in real estate and collecting rent was so much easier than waking up at 5 am to run. Then she picked up injuries and had no appetite to put in the hard work needed to rehab again because she was making easy money as a landlord. Plus after injury, she was not as fast as she was a year earlier and yet she was still under pressure from the public to win by large margins. Not to mention the pressure from maternity and her bitter divorce. So she just quit.

Its not implausible for a clean athlete to come close to breaking a dirty record.

Secondly, every country is rife with doping and there is no systematic doping in Kenya. (quote)

Wrong on the first point, and wrong on the second. An 18 year old doesn't run at the level of a 'roided E Bloc athlete and be clean. Some countries lead in the doping stakes - as Russia has shown - and it is rife in Kenyan running, as the continued doping busts have shown. It doesn't have to be state-sponsored to be endemic.

If the subject title of the thread were changed it is possible there would have been no real debate. It could have read, "If there was a clean world record in the 800m Athing Mu could have the potential to beat it at some point in her career." Debate over.

But there isn't a clean wr.

Armstronglivs wrote:

If the subject title of the thread were changed it is possible there would have been no real debate. It could have read, "If there was a clean world record in the 800m Athing Mu could have the potential to beat it at some point in her career." Debate over.

But there isn't a clean wr.

I actually think the mens jav, triple jump, PV and 800 and women's PV are all clean or at least possibly so.

Lhotse wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If the subject title of the thread were changed it is possible there would have been no real debate. It could have read, "If there was a clean world record in the 800m Athing Mu could have the potential to beat it at some point in her career." Debate over.

But there isn't a clean wr.

I actually think the mens jav, triple jump, PV and 800 and women's PV are all clean or at least possibly so.

Why, when competitors in those events will have doped just as they do in any other?

Mu is the clean world record holder.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Lhotse wrote:

I actually think the mens jav, triple jump, PV and 800 and women's PV are all clean or at least possibly so.

Why, when competitors in those events will have doped just as they do in any other?

Based on 50 years of observation and what I know about the careers of each athlete. To address your second point, most of them are a bit less competitive and it's more likely that a gifted outlier can dominate without PEDs due to small pool of talent. There are 1000 sprinters competing the 100 for every jav thrower who takes it up. Mostly just a hunch, which is all any of us have. All of the big name busts I've seen in my five decades were quite predictable.

Lhotse wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Why, when competitors in those events will have doped just as they do in any other?

Based on 50 years of observation and what I know about the careers of each athlete. To address your second point, most of them are a bit less competitive and it's more likely that a gifted outlier can dominate without PEDs due to small pool of talent. There are 1000 sprinters competing the 100 for every jav thrower who takes it up. Mostly just a hunch, which is all any of us have. All of the big name busts I've seen in my five decades were quite predictable.

No Olympic or world championship event has a "small pool of talent".

Pointer of points wrote:

Mu is the clean world record holder.

I doubt that 1.57.7 is the best yet.

Interestingly, if you look at the men-vs-women percentage across track events, 800m is actually the weakest in the book, which is 89% of the WR, compared to say, the 400m (90.3%), 1500m(89.5%), 10000m(89.7%) with the exception of the women-only HM and marathon record(88.1% and 88.7% respectively). And even on here, many people moan about how slo women are at the 800m compared to other distances.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Pointer of points wrote:

Mu is the clean world record holder.

I doubt that 1.57.7 is the best yet.

So you do have an arbitratry "clean" number. What is it based on though, since you have not named a specific WR holder? 1:56 humanly possible for women based on __________?

George213 wrote:

Interestingly, if you look at the men-vs-women percentage across track events, 800m is actually the weakest in the book, which is 89% of the WR, compared to say, the 400m (90.3%), 1500m(89.5%), 10000m(89.7%) with the exception of the women-only HM and marathon record(88.1% and 88.7% respectively). And even on here, many people moan about how slo women are at the 800m compared to other distances.

I see it the same way. Cracking 2:00 should be a normal occurrence in high school for talented girls and the WR for women could be around 1:51.

Women 800m lacks depth as most fast girls want to stick with sprints and most girls with strength take on XC and 1500m and up.

If Russia gets around to make a comeback in clean olympic sports, they will definitely contribute to the depth as women 800m is somewhat of a traditional event there.

i think the true figure of doping among olympic A leval athletes in track and field is close to 100% no matter what country theyre from..Its been suggested to be as high as 50% but i think its much higher than that.Perhaps its 50% if B leval qualifiers are included.To get to the top in many sports,you have to play the game,and do as others do,to be competitive.I dont know if athing mu is clean or not,but if she is,shes probably already the clean world record holder,and a once in a lifetime talent.I get suspicious about any super fast athlete coming out of the USA because i know they dope en masse there,and rarely get caught.

You can only know it if somebody gets caught. Otherwise you are only suspecting them. It is nice that you think you can redefine words but I am disallowing it.