Montesquieu wrote:
who runs for a coach who kills his athletes on core work...
Yup, that's his secret! Nailed it. It's all about the core. (lol)
Montesquieu wrote:
who runs for a coach who kills his athletes on core work...
Yup, that's his secret! Nailed it. It's all about the core. (lol)
Tyrannnosaurus Rexing wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:who runs for a coach who kills his athletes on core work...
Yup, that's his secret! Nailed it. It's all about the core. (lol)
You really just did that?
It adds nothing to the discussion, in fact it just derails conversation and wastes time in which Montesquieu has to come back and explain that is just one line from his whole post.
Discussion from both sides is fine, but what is the point of intentionally being a moron and totally misrepresenting what the other person is saying? Just to troll?
If its true then its true wrote:
Fastest Caucasian on earth at 10,000 by over 25 seconds? Idiot! His PR is 26:48 and Solinsky ran 26:59. My math may be fuzzy but that is only 11 seconds.
You missed his brilliant logic where he is able to exclude anyone else associated with the Nike Oregon Project, which he has logically extended to include Jerry's group and therefore most of the top American distance runners the past 5-10 years.
Back when Al beat Craig.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120646/2/index.htm
harland wrote:
Case in point,
1. Rupp is criticized for using gadgets, gizmos, etc. and his performances are questioned.
Again, I don't know who is clean and who isn't. Who is doing things that are illegal or unethical. However, I am 100% convinced that there is a general behavioral/methodology/personality bias from some regarding Rupp versus others.
It's natural to conclude is it the gizmos, is it the latest gadget, the latest medication?
Rupp and his coach admit to using a lot of gizmos and having thyroid conditions and allergies the rest of the world don't have. When Rupp steadily keeps getting better it is easy to wonder is it the gizmos or his talent?
When the blue collar guy kicks his ass we don't worry about the gizmos. The blue collar guy could be dirty but we don't wonder if its the gizmos or asthma medication. The blue collar guy has given no indication it takes gizmos or medication to succeed.
The gizmo guy has.
Both could be dirty. That is separate.
There are references as to why posts about Malmo are being deleted.
Full disclosure: Malmo is a moderator of these forums.
It's probably human nature for him to be quick on the trigger to delete posts about himself, but LRC does not want a bunch of threads devolving to be about malmo.
There is a whole thread on malmo here:
Based on a running economy of 192 ml/kg/km (Kenyan & Shorter)*
Rupp, based on a conservative physiological estimate, held a VO2 of ~76** ml/kg/min for 8 minutes during AR 2mile
To do the 4 x miles required an estimated VO2 of ~ 71 ml/kg/min**
To do the last mile in 4:01 requires an estimated VO2 of ~77 ml/kg/min**
* economony based on running 3:00 min/km
** rough estimate most likely underestimated due to:
a) running economy decreases at higher nonsteady state velocities
b) assumes no drift in VO2 but this is unlikely since VO2 drift upwards
quickly to VO2max at high nonsteady state intensities
If these calculation are performed for Komen 3k WR using the same assumptions, a conservative estimate of the VO2 required~78.5 ml/kg/min
This means Rupp has a VO2max probably near ~80 vs Komen ~83.
If we knew Rupp economy and VO2max then we could deduce if his performances are within the realm of possibility. This is a similar technique that Lemond & others used to raise suspicions about Lance Armstrong climbing ability.
Rupp's Economy is 195 I believe.
for record
Rupps 10,000m pb was ran
with the aid of GW50 and knock alot
more off time for that , due to extra endurance.
as for farah's pb also ran during open season
with GW501516 .
where have the fast times in longer distance gone
since window ran out in march 2013.
more about speed ,as endurance is at a max with t3 or what
events running reflect this
where is this speed coming from ,
and how could most athletes nervous system
handle the post workout rupp just blasted.
most would overtrain and burn out pretty soon.
the key to this all is where is enhancement coming from.
the problem with these post workout sessions.
is not recovery of muscles ,joints ,getting rid of lactate
etc ,all should be in check for elite athletes.as mentioned
THE NERVOUS SYSTEM IS WHAT WILL GO FIRST .
if nothing to aid it like roids etc.
rupp can push as much as wants ,do pre workouts if wants , as at peak cycle of
YES THE LIGHTNESS ,igf-1 lr3 .
speed ,form ,stride frequency ,nervous system all
super enhanced .
just imagine if GALEN had unrestricted epo to boot and
with added endurance and that speed records would tumble.
aduck2022 wrote:
for record
Rupps 10,000m pb was ran
with the aid of GW50 and knock alot
more off time for that , due to extra endurance.
as for farah's pb also ran during open season
with GW501516 .
where have the fast times in longer distance gone
since window ran out in march 2013.
more about speed ,as endurance is at a max with t3 or what
events running reflect this
where is this speed coming from ,
and how could most athletes nervous system
handle the post workout rupp just blasted.
most would overtrain and burn out pretty soon.
the key to this all is where is enhancement coming from.
Wikipedia:
"radically enhance endurance"
"Several high affinity ligands for PPARδ have been developed, including GW501516 and GW0742, which play an important role in research. In one study utilizing such a ligand, it has been shown that agonism of PPARδ changes the body's fuel preference from glucose to lipids"
So that's where the 2:03s to 2:05's are coming from.
Thankyou.
Exactly....
That's what's up!
aduck2022 wrote:
for record
Rupps 10,000m pb was ran
with the aid of GW50 and knock alot
more off time for that , due to extra endurance.
as for farah's pb also ran during open season
with GW501516 .
where have the fast times in longer distance gone
since window ran out in march 2013.
more about speed ,as endurance is at a max with t3 or what
events running reflect this
where is this speed coming from ,
and how could most athletes nervous system
handle the post workout rupp just blasted.
most would overtrain and burn out pretty soon.
the key to this all is where is enhancement coming from.
Sounds like you really know your shit.
Explain it to an idiot who only knows EPO and HGH. What is GW501516 and igf-1 lr3 ?
You can't deduce anything from that -- too many assumptions with too much uncertainty.Lemond didn't use math to raise suspicion about Armstrong. In 2001 Armstrong's hidden relationship with Ferrari became public. That was all insiders needed to know. The rest of the suspicion was based on the series of positive drug tests that seemed to be explained away.
run-free wrote:
Based on a running economy of 192 ml/kg/km (Kenyan & Shorter)*
Rupp, based on a conservative physiological estimate, held a VO2 of ~76** ml/kg/min for 8 minutes during AR 2mile
To do the 4 x miles required an estimated VO2 of ~ 71 ml/kg/min**
To do the last mile in 4:01 requires an estimated VO2 of ~77 ml/kg/min**
* economony based on running 3:00 min/km
** rough estimate most likely underestimated due to:
a) running economy decreases at higher nonsteady state velocities
b) assumes no drift in VO2 but this is unlikely since VO2 drift upwards
quickly to VO2max at high nonsteady state intensities
If these calculation are performed for Komen 3k WR using the same assumptions, a conservative estimate of the VO2 required~78.5 ml/kg/min
This means Rupp has a VO2max probably near ~80 vs Komen ~83.
If we knew Rupp economy and VO2max then we could deduce if his performances are within the realm of possibility. This is a similar technique that Lemond & others used to raise suspicions about Lance Armstrong climbing ability.
I have not read the entire thread but here are my thoughts. Lets break down the Rupp post 2 mile record workout.Using percentages is the best way to see what the effort was for the workout. Rupp averaged 4:03.7 for the 2 mile record. The avg. for the first 4 mile repeats was 4:19.25 . This is .94 % of 4:03.7. The last mile repeat was run @ 101 % of 4:03.7. Contrary to the post of recovery times the following the recovery after each mile repeat was 3:20, 2:55, 3:28 and 6:24. Basically most fit runners with a strong will and a few years running background could run this workout after their own 2 mile race. For example here is what the workout would look like for a 10:00 2 mile runner ( 5:20.8, 5:19.4,5:19.4, 5:15.78 and 4:57 ) An impressive workout but not beyond the realm of impossible. Any thoughts ?
MikeM wrote:
I wouldn't worry about what Virgin thinks. With respect to the workout, Galen did 10k type effort for 4 miles, then blasted a mile. It didn't scream of anything more than a hard effort that was controlled for 80% of it after a race. The last mile was impressive, but in the 70s and 80s read about other talented runners doing similar efforts in training (Coe, Pre, Walker, Bayi, Viren, Ovett, etc). This screams more of either jealousy or incompetence. Although I respect what Virgin did, there is nothing that tells me he knows enough about training itself to question what salazar is doing or to think that what Galen is doing in training other runners have not. What could Geb, Komen, Bekele, etc have done? Read about the famous workouts by Geb, Tergat, Ngugi, Coe, etc. I seem to recall Kennedy talking about his workouts with his group (including Komen) and saying incredible times were run by the entire group. I don't think Kennedy was doped, nor do I think these guys are. Just have to let the doubters speak their mind. A lot of these runners are tested in and out of competition year round. As of now, when has Galen tested positive and when Virgin talks of 'remarkable recovery/regeneration' how does he know what Galen is doing before or after these races? It is speculation at best.
but i highly doubt Coe, Pre, Walker, Bayi, Viren,or Ovett ran a workout even close to this after running a 8:07 15minutes before.
I think Mike M has nailed it. Rupp's workout and racing is highly impressive, but not fundamentally amazing. Neither Rupp nor Farah have splattered any World records. Both have improved well under Salazar, but Farah in particular has always been seriously talented and I'm prepared to credit Salazar for pushing the training envelope. This allows(forces?) rich Westerners to compete with Africans who are born with motivation we can only guess at.
Its been great for me in UK to see the recent improvement in US distance running and I want you to enjoy it and stop worrying.
As for supplements? Distance runners eat loads of food. There should be plenty of nutrients available in any sensible diet.
Forgive me if this has been written, I can't read 15 pages of comments. But doesn't setting one record make it more likely that the same athlete can set another in a short timeframe. It indicates great form, so we should expect several records to fall in quick succession.
In terms of post-race workouts, I have to believe those who write that while a race, particularly a record-setting race is taxing, it is almost a "day off" in terms of season long training cycles considering the mileage and workouts he must be doing on other days. I'd expect him to do more on race day if the bigger goal is still down the road a bit.
Go Galen! Good to see some excitement at a track meet!
If you read the original post it states there are large assumptions. If we had concrete data of his running economy and VO2max then the analysis would be more concrete.
The economy I assumed was on par with Shorter but what if he had a lower economy close to ~212 mL/kg/km. This would increase the VO2 requirement to run 8:07 close to ~83 mL/min/kg and require a VO2max of ~88ml/min/kg. If you throw in the mile repeat of 4:01 the values go even higher and close to upper realm of physiology).
Lemond criticized Armstrong because he knew his physical capabilities were well below his profile (aka his Vo2max was much higher than Armstrong) and knew it was impossible for him to ride well without PEDs.
Virgin would have been better of asking Salazar how many of his athletes are on hormone therapy, which currently does not require a TUE. That, I suspect, is where the amazing powers of recovery are coming from.