"I guess this is the LAST season" — Katelyn Tuohy

her 4:24.26 converts as 4:04 1500m

her en-route 1500m at armory is faster than her outdoor 1500m PR months ago

her all-out 1500m time for outdoors will surely be faster that, which is fking crazy to even think about... she can totally win the mile and 1500m but she wont even run that at nationals

I’m actually a Henes fan as well. Just pointing out that the WR for the 3K indoor is 8:16 while outdoor it’s 8:06. Her 5K record is indeed faster than Tuohy’s, to date, and I wouldn’t argue the point that for the longer distance she’s got the edge. 3K, though, is another animal altogether. The combination of aerobic strength and speed requirements lend themselves more to Tuohy’s strength, as of this writing. It remains to be seen if Henes has improved to the same extent with her speed this time around. That’s why it will be fun to see this race. We will see on Saturday that will prove or disprove my point.

Satisfy who? The posters on this message board?

This comparison is highly misleading. The fastest outdoor 3000m not run by 1990s chinese is 8:18 (Hassan at Pre 2019). As 3000m has not been a championship distance outdoors for over 25 years, there are probably more high level indoor races for women over the distance nowadays. The AR is also as fast indoors as outdoors. The question is not if women can run as fast indoors but if they are in top shape in indoor season (as Dibaba was for 8:16 and Schweizer for 8:25). From Tuohy's recent times, 8:41 seems possible, even sub 8:40 (although this would then be considerably better than any of her other marks) but 8:45-46 should not count as disappointment. Just recall how lackluster the NB race turned out, regarding the runners involved. One doesn't run the best possible times automatically, things have to fit together.

That’s quite true…all we have to go on is recent history…and KT has been on a tear. That doesn’t mean it will continue this week. Others can come together for their best performances or everyone could run well below their best. On the other hand, we have some very fast and competitive women here who rarely come together for a non-championship race.

There is not a single WR that is as fast indoors as outdoors, as far as I know, for either gender. The 1-4% indoor penalty is strictly a function of the fact that running curves (in this case by a factor of 2x) cannot be done as fast by humans as a track with longer straight ways.

Let's convert her mile to the 800 to get 1:59. Convert that to 400 and she can run 53. Convert that to the 100 and she has a shot at breaking 11.

NCAA men's mile. Even when you convert the outdoor 1500.

Check

mate.

Henes is a great runner, but it's a huge stretch to say she is anywhere close to 4:19 for the mile. That would be #2 all time US indoors, #3 all time US outdoors. That would be faster than Nikki Hiltz, Heather Maclean and other 1500m runners

Her PRs in 1500m / mile from this summer are 4:05/4:27. Fulton, Morgan, Cranny, Monson (and now Tuohy) have run faster over short distances.

I agree she cpuld possibly break 8:40 in this race, probably what she is going for

WR … NCAA records are unreliable based on the frequency a race is run…e.g. you could have multiple chances at the ring indoors while a distance like the mile is rarely contested outdoors in the NCAA’s.

Are you seriously contesting the fact that across multiple distances there’s a 1-4% indoor penalty due to the curves? When’s the last time anyone ran an indoor sub-20 200M? You’re not entitled to your own facts…you’re either being deliberately argumentative or you’re unable to process simple facts…LOOK IT UP!

Mile records are more applicable here than other records considering the 3000 has the exact same issue. How many 3k's are contested outdoors?

The curves don't slow runners down much at 32-34 secs per indoor lap (as in women's 1500-3000). Modern indoor tracks are very fast and there is no wind, which is an advantage.

It depends more on peak form and high level races (incl. BTC style TTs). E.g. Dibaba, Purrier, Reekie, Koko, have all run faster mile races indoors than outdoors. Dibaba was 5 secs. faster in her best indoor 3000m, Muir and Tsegay have also faster 3000m indoors than outdoors and there are more examples.

Tuohy will run mostly ~35 sec. laps or slightly faster, the indoor track will not be a big factor in "slowing her down".

Fail.

You asked for a record and I gave it, even with leeway for conversion.

The NCAA is the only fair comparison of events where they are competed with equal frequency indoors or out. At the world level many if not most top world distance athletes sit out indoors, so comparing indoor v. outdoors WRs carries implicit statistical bias towards outdoor records.

Thanks for confirming my point about this. Modern banked tracks are every bit as fast statistically as outdoor venues. The indoor mile NCAA record of 3:50 is actually faster, statistically by 1.08 conversion, than the outdoor NCAA 1500 record of 3:33.

Getting back to the subject, Citius just said they hear the pacer for the 3000 is supposed be 67 s per 400 (4:28 1600) which is 8:23 pace. Too fast for everybody but Cranny and Monson I would say.

The posters who said Tuohy may be pacing off of Henes could be right after all.

Start lineup has changed again, now Tuohy, Henes starting next to each other .

Cranny, Monson and Galvan all starting on outside edge beside pacer.