Another run across America underway - is it legit? Boots currently on the ground

Yes, and then we get the dismissive way that podcasters Chris Hutchinson and Rich Roll address the issue:

CH: It's a British Record perhaps, it's not a World Record?

RR: I don't remember, offhand, I could look that up. I think that was part of what ruffled feathers is that he was gonna be the fastest British guy, but there was this other guy. It's like, who cares? Will doesn't even care. You know, he just wanted to go and do this hard thing, and raise money. I respect Will, for his conviction, and sense of self, to just be who he is..."

In this parlay alone, they dismiss the importance and the feat of Pete Kostelnick's WR and imply Goodge could be the Transcon record holder, and whether he's the British one or not is irrelevant... except that it looked great on the side of his van, "fastest Englishman ever", p*ssing all over the legacies of Bruce Tulloh, who the van's statement was clearly aimed at, and then John Lees, who their sloppy research didn't even reach, and when informed, they just ignore.

As for that fundraising, the silence remains total about how much has been handed over to whom, 5 months on from the run.

More and more false runs by Goodge come up by the day. His 12 marathons in 12 days at Christmas 2020 don't read true in the slightest, and were clearly a dummy run for the ludicrous 48/30 stunt the next year. He found he could pull it off without people noticing - time to go really big, which 48/30 most certainly is.

For the 12/12 the times are far too quick to be credible, often around 3:40 which is completely unnecessary - why blast the days like that? Only one is completely normal, when he runs close to 5 hours with a pal. The last one, on Christmas day, we're supposed to believe he just went off and pinged a 3:19, with 11 marathons already in the legs. We can easily compare it with a real marathon:

Bedford solo run Christmas Day 2020 [3:19]:

Kms 20-30 46:20 HR 137

New York 2022 [3:15]

Kms 20-30 46:45 HR 163

Bedford last 2.2k

10:13 at 148

New york last 2.2k

10:49 at 171.

As can clearly be seen a solo run on Christmas day with 11 marathons in the leg has these splits and others quicker than a big city marathon with all the pace-making and adrenaline that gets, whereas the former simply doesn't matter. It could be a 3:19 or a 3:49, no-one would bat an eye. And Bedford has the greater elevation.

On marathons 10 & 11 he simply posted the identical performances: a 3:39, net 3:54 off an HR of 132. Elevation of one 362, the other 130. On both runs his heart remains stuck without any spikes or normal readings for an effort of this sort. For instance, a few days earlier he ran 3:52 at 147 [a lot more credible]. Now he's suddenly doing back to back 3:39s at 132. No chance.

As this thread has made clear, these huge discrepancies are all over WG and RB's Strava, and as the old Chicago saying goes: "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it's enemy action."

take a break man. touch some grass, run some trails, be happy.
it’s obvious to everyone who matters that he’s faked large parts of these stunt runs…and the rest of the people won’t be convinced by arguments they don’t properly understand.

sure he’s a fraud but he’s convincing enough to charm the unwashed and there’s naught you or I can do about it.

Yep, just back from an idyllic 5 miler with my son. I assure you I'm calm of mind, all passion spent. 5-6 months is a good time to look at something like this, and this 132 page dossier is indeed sufficient. It's almost impossible for WG and RB to do another such stunt of super quick made-up adventure runs off no pulse.

They now are pretty much limited to racing, where we know they'll be very ordinary or worse than mediocre. To improve, WG would actually have to get out there and do some proper miles, which he's shown year after year he's completely incapable of doing.

The theme of social media Influencers claiming they're great runners and record breakers when they're not, and attracting huge sponsorship, endorsements, acclaim and commercial income is a problem for all sorts of reasons, and for us as a community to say, 'there's nothing we can do' is too defeatist. We can cry foul, and not let them have it all their own way. Make them work a bit harder for their filthy lucre.

The absurd upcoming run in Chile will be all hot air: "off the books, no rules, no results"; perfect for that lot. Otherwise, yes, I think WG is stuck with his 3+hr marathons, which only impress the fanboys.

Rich Roll podcast with Will is up....

Back here after RR pod release, not watched the full thing yet but can skip to this "chat" at 52 mins onwards.

Remember when he said Whoop (which he has on his wrist the whole time and automatically detects exercise) would release ALL of his data from start to finish to prove the doubters wrong... still waiting on that ;)

Didn't Rich Roll interview Lance Armstrong too?

Let's not forget that Rich Roll was never much of an athlete himself. He just wrote a book about a made up challenge he did for himself.

Always wondered if his 48 was legit. He never wanted anyone running with him and actively pushed people not to join him as it was too "dangerous".

His videographer is a kid on rollerskates.... all a little coincidental.

Compare that to the guy who was the first to do the 48 who proactively encouraged everyone to go run with him and shared all his data too.

Always found the guy odd considering he always refused to reference that the task of 48 marathons in all counties had been done by someone earlier that year. Seems very self absorbed about cultivating his own brand which is probably why a lot of the community dislike him as it's normally about the challenge rather than the publicity.

Shame that people like him get all this kudos and credibility whilst others that legitimately do it inevitably don't get the same.

Hi, the data for the 48 is a total mess. Only 10 of the 48 marathons have a human pulse and the rest are far too quick anyhow. Don't need to be that tangy. Of course the first one has a perfect HR, then nothing for over a week until the Brighton marathon - perfect HR - then just the odd credible pulse, usually with a 5.20 or so marathon, but a bunch of 4.30-4.50s off an HR of 105, or switched off, or just frozen heart data. Then at the end, London - a perfect HR up at around 170, blimey.

He did a dummy run for it with 12 marathons in 12 days at Christmas 9 months earlier. They're a total mess too. A 3:19 for the last on Christmas Day, with 11 already in the bag, off a very low pulse of 125. The 3:19 should be a 4:19 and anyone who "gets" running knows this.

I watched that Rich Roll interview.. what an absolute bore that was. He also claimed that Whoop had released all of his data. Don't think that is true right?

I think the Advertising Standards Agency will catch up with him soon. He should be marking his posts about things like Puresport, Represent, NuCalm with #ad under their influencer marketing rules.

No, and it very much looks like the key to the puzzle, as a Letsrun sleuth on here screenshotted a Whoop commercial that clearly showed him skipping 4 hours on a big day.

I have asked him and his associates so many times to release the data, but to me he just replied asking, did I once "soil myself in a race?" Deflection is his number one go to.

I invite anyone on here to question or comment on the youtube or social media asking for his Whoop, or DM them on Insta.

OPEN LETTER IN RESPONSE TO RICH ROLL PODCAST SEGMENT CONCERNING ME

Dear Rich,

As you know I am the reporter who has grave doubts about the authenticity of the off-the-books adventure runs of Robbie Balenger and William Goodge this past 4.5 years, and have written to you at some length about this around a month ago.

I have observed your podcast with Will, and as you know I come under heavy shellfire. These are my responses to the attacks on my character, nature, background and relationship with my mother. I should be delighted to discuss them with you any time. All I want is for the integrity of the sport, and for runnng to remain clean, and for the plaudits and respect to go to the right people. If WG is one of the leading ultra runners in the world as you both heavily submit, he should be willing to clear up some of these concerns:

1) WG’s states that I have only come after him because I hate my long deceased mother. He states this twice, calling her an addict. For a vast majority of my life she was clean, having her last drink in the late 1970s. All I said to Will was that comparing his bereavement to mine was not relevant. He clearly had a close, loving, nurturing relationship with Mandy, whereas the spectre of post alchoholism and depression always casts a shadow over human interactions, as it did with mine. It has nothing to do with “hatred”, and you delve into this very significantly with your own life story. When everyone had cut you off, including your family, they certainly didn’t hate you. But to suggest I went after WG because I resent that he had a superior relationship with his mother than I did with mine, is abhorrent and total deflection.

2) I had not looked at WG’s Power of Ten before the event as he doesn’t have one. His competition and achievements in the sport have been so minute that they haven’t registered with them. RunBritainRankings have a page on him. He is the 36,526th best runner in Britain. I am semi-retired, entering my 6th decade, hobbling along rather – well you posted that hideous footage of me – and am 17,524th. The famous database DUV has an ultra page on him which details him losing to a W45 4 hour marathoner at MDS by 5 hours. His 35 hour run there compared to the winner’s 18. The rest of his Ultras – there are only a few – are similar to this in quality.

3) It is outrageous to go into a huge event like this as a running unknown, and ask, “what’s the National record”, find it out, and say, “I’ll have that then.” And paint it on the side of your van. Especially if it’s one of the finest, most respected British runners of all time - the European champion and a 4-minute miler whose run in 1969 was pioneering and triggered a great book. Bruce’s daughter is most upset by the disrespect Goodge showed to his legacy and this has all been kept from Bruce’s widow as she would find it far too upsetting. As you know when I diplomatically pointed out WG’s misstep, he said to you he merely thought: “F*ck it, whatever mate, I’m not going to give you a response.”

4) I never, ever said or wrote to anyone that he was going to raise half a million dollars for cancer charities that he was going to “steal”. Total and utter nonsense. Where is this accusation noted? Certainly not in writing. His charity fundraising has got nothing to do with this investigation, although as a subplot we are all mystified why he didn’t point the funds to charity rather than Gofundme, and we don’t undertand why after more than 5 months of very heavy partying there has been no announcement about what happened to the funds.

5) Due to this lie, he then says to you, “so the guy’s a little bit deluded.” He is simply trying to trash-talk me and destroy my credibility. You guys are very careful not to name me in your chat [just with an easy to miss caption on the footage] – I believe this is because you don’t want people to Google me and thus see my credibility rise.

6) I am not a “protégé” of Tulloh as you state. I knew him, was fond of him, respected him and would bump into him on running tours and events like the Athens marathon. We once spoke at the same event. I just didn’t like to see his legacy and one of the finest achievements of his 50-year career completely disregarded by an unknown runner, model and influencer. RB’s statement to me that the only reason that I’ve raised this is “because I’ve got a hard-on for a dead man,” is appalling on many levels. There is no need for such disgusting abuse from a supposed ambassador of the sport, when a cordial, rational discussion is what is requested. But as noted above, these two refuse to discuss anything about this at all. It’s always the same: insult or igore. Right from the start.

7) Kostelnick is not 77 miles a day, he is 72. That’s a huge differential of 6.5%. It’s this constant lack of care and attention to detail that is so jarring. As is Goodge plucking the figure of 66 out of the sky, because it “sounded good”. As it did plucking the Jogle figure of 14 out of the blue, as a complete novice.

8) Lees’s time is 53.8 days not 52. He was a member of Team GB and very well known and respected. He did it in 1972, not the 90’s. WG then says, it was just something to aim for; but since the run WG and his team and sponsors have splashed it all over the media that he is the fastest Brit of all time. He says that Kostelnick is all that matters to him. Well clearly not.

9) You call me a running sleuth but refuse to say anything about my background which I note above as well. I have been a columnist with Athletics Weekly since 2006, albeit rarely in recent years, but there was a recent high profile column about saving cross-country running in Richmond park. I am the author of two running books, including “the greatest marathon races of all time” described by the London Times as epic. Ryan Hall lists it as one of his favourite books, along with the bible. I have a 66 for the half, numerous top 40 finishes at London, and have studied multidaying forensically for 5 years, due to my dispute with Guinness about the fake Jogle record.

10) WG says on the day I arrived, “it might have been a 70 mile day, it was at least a 60 mile day” shows how totally clueless they are about what they were doing. The difference between a 70 and a 60 is night and day. No proper runner would be that confused. I though he was aiming for 50s! Where does 70 come from?

11) WG saying Whoop have published all of his data is a mistruth. We’ve asked him many times for his Whoop. I’ve asked you for it. Where is it? We have seen just one day of it, a nicked screenshot from a commercial, and the Letsrun crowd instantly picked up that 4 hours of running were missing. An hour in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. He only took an hour off that day on Strava. He replies with disgusting abuse when I ask for it. Something bizarre about did I ever soil myself in a race.

End of Part 1

Part Two:

12) He says the reason his heart rate date was out on the first 12 days was because he was wearing Pete’s Garmin and “apparently it was wrong.” It looked like cutting edge equipment to me and the first day or so had perfect data, before it started to fall off a cliff. But even if the Garmin was broken, on the 13th day he switches to a Coros, so all should be fine. However, after a day or so the Coros also started to fire off completely random and physiologically impossible data, which it then did so for most the the next 40 days – except when I went out to observe, when it was largely perfect for 5 days.

13) Your statement that “wrist heart rate is bullsh*t,” is a grave mistruth. These companies like Garmin and Coros are not hugely successful because they produce a bullsh*t product. People don’t pay a very high premium for this equipment for a bullsh*t product. The evidence is overwhelming that they absolutely fine, and the American library of medicine has said they’re within 98.5% accuracy of electrocardiagrams. In the many hundreds of runs that WG has done outside of his off-the-books fundraisers his HR is perfect. I can’t find a single run where he’s off. But in all his and Robbie’s runs like this, their data fails some 90% of the time, giving off a non-human pulse. If you take 100 – or a 1,000 – random ultra runs on Strava you will get a success rate of over 98%. I took 100 random major Ultra runs, up to 350k in length, and got a 100% strike rate for credible accuracy. I’m NOT looking for little tiny fluctuations where 138 looks a bit low, and it should be more like 145. I’m pointing out that some 15,000k by these two are complete nonsense. Circa 100-115bpm when they should be 130-180.

14) To compare today’s technology to yesterday’s and say, “why should he be open to more scrutiny”, is total deflection. We can only go with the technology of the day, and today’s is excellent. He refuses a tracker, because “he doesn’t think he should have to”, but all serious runners are tracked for this sort of thing. Many say now, if you refuse to be tracked, forget it. He gives no reason for his refusal to be tracked. Also, Tulloh’s performance was perfectly in line with his ability. Goodge is running 56 minutes for 10k late into days. A berserk speed for a long multiday, off a very low pulse. The norm for top multidayers like Kostelnick and Lawson at their world records is 70-75 minutes for 6 miles. Or 90 for Carla Molinaro’s Jogle WR. But WG just slams down a 56 for 42-50 miles of a day. At the recent 100 miler in Bear Lake, his split for 42-50 miles was 96 minutes. He’s taking 40 minutes out of himself at Transcon over a 6 mile stretch, compared to a one-off race. It should be the other way round.

15) Your statement that obviously I had a relationship with Tulloh is deflection and irrelevant. Yes, I knew him a bit, but WGs stats don’t make any sense whatsoever regardless of my relationship with Bruce, just as they don’t for his Jogle where the numbers are a complete mess – he collapses on days 3 and 4 and then rises like a phoenix and fires off a world class run without a single problem from then on in. And just 10 of his 48 marathons in 30 days register a human pulse. And three of those were for day 1 [when he’s always fine], and the Brighton and London marathons – the latter at an eye-watering 170bpm.

16) WG looking like he does is irrelevant and has not triggered me. Yes, he’s pretty buff, but all I care about is his training, race results, background and ability. His training is meagre. Less than 20 mile weeks for the last 4 years, when 80+ is the mark for ultra man. I was 80+ for the marathon for a decade, but could never have handled an ultra – not enough miles. And his race returns for the ultras he has done are appalling. Five days before his 100 miler, I emailed myself three predictions: Dnf at 60, dnf at 80, and 34 hours. His goal was 24. He dnf’d at 60.2, and as kibitzers have pointed out he did well to get that far! But the true challenge of the race, the big 7 mile climb, was still miles off in the distance. And it was clear to all that by 30 miles his race was done as he had started to drop from 30th to 124th. This is the calibre of ultra man you have just dedicated over 2 hours to, and his statement about, “you can always take another step”, is clearly null and void. He could have continued at 60 miles, he wasn’t injured, just in a world of fatigue and it was clear he would start missing the cut-offs. Quite simply, he jumped before he was pushed.

17) WG states the reason he does this stuff is fueled for the love of his mum, but this is also deflection. WG does not have the global monopoly on grief. It is well noted in dispatches he turned pro years ago and is very surprised that he’s a professional runner, and admits it’s an unlikely career path for him. He clearly makes a fabulous living from the sport, and has well over 50 companies and products backing him. You and he have several in common. At one stage you both launch into a long infomercial for NuCalm about how it aided and abetted his Transcon.

If WG is this great ultra runner that you and he claim, he should be more willing to engage with the running community. He should do four very simple things:
1) Stop dismissing the serious runners who question him as “losers”.
2) Release his Transcon Whoop, which he promised he would.
3) Be far more open about what charity funds have gone to which charity, and the reason he has kept the vast bulk of the funds in his Gofund me for nearly half a year, instead of putting them to work.
4) Have a frank and open debate with someone like myself, or another specialist [or panel of] about why he and RB are immaculate, trouble-free and often world class at these fundraisers off an HR of 105, but chaotic and worse than mediocre in training and competition, off an HR of 130-180.

This is a very important matter to the integrity of our precious sport. Loughborough University say they’re getting a lot of this across their desk in the last few years and have given it a name: “Digital Doping.”

You’re heavily redacting the Youtube comments but I don’t think this will be sufficient to make this go away. The Letsrun thread will be there for years and has started to become very active again.

As noted, this is an Open Letter, and I will publish and circulate freely, including on the LR thread. I look forward to hearing from you.

With best regards,
Sincerely,
WVL Cockerell

Thanks Will for all the hard work you put into this.

Also great that you knew Bruce Tulloh. I knew the guy who read his book and got his record a few years later.

Goodge is the typical con guy. Very good looking, very charming. Most people fall for that if they don't have the knowledge about the subject they are scamming.

Yes, and a heart wrenching story about your dead mum and raising money for charity will blind people even further.

I'm starting to regret that I didn't raise money for charity in honour of my dead mother when I broke the NC500 record. I'd've be minted by now! 😄

Jesus, what a f***ing disgrace. I didn't realize Rich Roll was an utter scumbag, but I guess this makes it pretty clear.

I generally enjoy Rich Roll's podcast. I enjoyed his book. I understand who he is. He is a mediocre LD runner with a great story. And yes, he is always selling stuff to make a living. He is a great interviewer. I like him. The first time I listened to this segment on WG, he swayed me a bit. Rich Roll was convinced it was totally legit because he "knows Robby and the video guy". " no effin way"! But then I went out on a run and thought about the exact words that were said in that short segment. Essentially what proof was given in that interview that WG was telling the truth.? There was absolutely nothing! Here are some of the odd things I saw:

1. If you watch the portion where he talks about the watch and woop his answers are short and defensive. You also see him fidgeting and spinning in the chair like he is uncomfortable. It would be interesting to have a body language expert interpret that segment.

2. They chuckle and WG even brags a bit about how he had no watch and had to borrow someones else's. How does that statement not have a follow up question from Rich like WTF? You have all this money dumped into this project, sponsors all lined up and you forgot to have a rock solid GPS watch of your own on your wrist (and 2 or 3 back ups)? That is total BS. These guys are totally into tech and social media yet they play this game that they are salt of the earth, natural runners that can't be bothered with watch technology. They revert to this story that they are infants in understanding of GPS watches because they are just pure runners. Robbie even turns off his Heart rate monitor and even maps feature on some of his feats for money. They know how to work technology.

2 Then we have the defense that "did the other guy have heart rate data"? Well of course not! The point is that your HR data shows something dishonest. Not whether you have data or not. That is pure gaslighting.

3. Rich very quickly jumps in and rescues Wil with his line "HR data is BS". HR data is not BS! Heart rate data can be wonky. Heart rate data can at times pick up cadence. But there are no instances of Heart rate data dropping out of the sky and sitting at 105 BPM for enormous stretches of 60 mile runs when the runner is supposed to be running through mountains in a transcon.

The more I think back about this entire interview, the more I realize it was two guys (buddies) selling stuff. A big commerical. There was no goal of diving in for truth in an investigative manner. So nothing learned here.

This is crazy. How do you fake the HR though? If you're on a bike it wouldn't register a cadence either would it? Is the data showing cadence or do you just get distances and HR?

I sent this forum to the guy who did the 48 marathons in the 48 counties first (that WG subsequently completely ignored and refused to acknowledge had already been done before him) and asked him for comment

This guy has all the reason in the world to dislike or doubt him BUT he said he didn't even know WG's runs were being scrutinised which shows how much this is all being well curated and hidden on WG's profiles and sponsors.

How do you even get this message out though? Surely any comments on media are deleted or hidden and his sponsors won't want to question it as it throws their products into doubt?