She got beat fair and square. I was struck by the lack of sportsmanship after the race. Didn't congratulate the winner, didn't even acknowledge anybody and just left the stadium. She is a great runner but I was surprised and disappointed by how she handled herself.
Other people have said that something seems off. The first hint of it was her interview after setting the record at Soundrunning. Whether it is fatigue, illness, something in her personal life. Hopefully it is just a temporary set back.
Other people have said that something seems off. The first hint of it was her interview after setting the record at Soundrunning. Whether it is fatigue, illness, something in her personal life. Hopefully it is just a temporary set back.
The default is that she’s fine and just had a bad race. She wasn’t the only one.
I have been one of the down voters of every "woulda coulda" post that astro has made about the 5000. It is completely inappropriate. Parker Valby won that race. 15:30 in that heat was a fast time. She is the legitimate winner. Parker went all-in on the 5K. Touhy made a different decision, and that decision rendered her a no-show. That is what actually happened yesterday, and Parker Valby deserves 100% credit for running a great race and winning her first NCAA championship. She toed the line after a season of injury against a talented field and she made it happen. I enjoyed watching her win. She was totally deserving. Astro, I usually enjoy your comments, but injecting a Tuohy fantasy into Parker's moment is just flat tacky. Just stop, please. Tuohy didn't show so it doesn't matter what she might have done. She didn't. Parker did. End of story.
Mia Ramsden ran a superb race. She executed that 1500 pretty perfectly, and she gained from Tuohy's foolishness. Tuohy should have known from Wake Forest how starting out that fast would end for her. She flew too close to the sun this time. It happens. But Mia Ramsden deserves a lot of credit for winning big against that stacked field.
I am finding myself perplexed by the events yesterday. Everything that happened was 100% predictable by this armchair fan, so it should have been apparent to Tuohy and Henes. When she declared for both events I assumed she was sitting on something truly special. They knew the 1500 field was loaded. They knew the race was in Austin in June. They knew she would have to run fast in the 1500 to have any chance. All of this was apparent from the onset. She made this decision. It turned out to be a poor decision. This 1500 played out very similar to her 1500 at Wake Forest. She knew how starting too fast would end for her. I just don't understand the decision making here. Henes now has the distinction as the first coach to take a talent like Tuohy and produce an incredibly poor result. What she is doing with that very talented team does not seem to be working.
I think less of Tuohy for not showing up for the 5000. She put this out there. She knew the conditions. There was nothing wrong with her. She was butt-hurt and did not want to lose to Parker. Showing up and giving her best and seeing her commitment through would have been the classy thing to do. Instead, she basically gets credit as a ghost runner from rabid fans and takes away the spotlight from the deserving winner. Declaring this double was a bad decision, but it was her decision and she had all of the facts going in and she had an obligation to see the thing through.
The woman who lost a spot because of this (13th at regionals) was Savannah Shaw, her teammate and a senior. I think that really sucks.
I am still a fan, but I would have had some serious respect for her showing up and not dodging the loss. Parker Valby crushed it. She ran that race on pure heart and she deserves all of the credit due for winning an NCAA championship. Parker was the one who showed up at 9:55 ready to go, and Tuohy didn't through her own decisions. Britton Wilson showed up. She saw her commitment through. That is class.
I agree with some of this, especially the part about how Henes could have misjudged this so much.
But, the psychologizing of people on this board that she was "butt-hurt" or "weasling" out of something or didn't have "class" is whack. Like, really??! She looked really bad and may very well have been feeling too unwell in the heat after that race to double. All the judgement into her mindset or character is unnecessary. She isn't the only runner to scratch either - Dylan Jacobs did too with far more recovery time and I dont see endless posts of vitriol.
Re Valby - she crushed it. I have been saying for a while that she performs really well in the heat and boy she did.
Talk about what Tuohy could have done is irrelevant because
1) she didn't show
2) it was not her day her yesterday, (imho doubt she would have won regardless based on what we saw through the prelims and final)
3) Valby is the winner and seemed totally unfazed by the hot conditions, maybe moreso than any runner at the meet men or women on the distance side
The butt-hurt and weaseling comments made me want to vomit, after all that KT has given of herself and for her team. Way, way over the line.
Spot on. It was selfish of Henes & Tuohy to steal Shaw's spot. She was robbed. And potential means nothing if you can't execute. The winner is whoever crosses the line first & in the big leagues those big races are won on Strategy. Give credit to the Winner for executing a strategic race plan & seizing her opportunity!
Greetings Mr. or Mrs. Shaw, no one stole anything. Your daughter simply did not qualify and Katelyn had no idea what would happen two weeks into the future as she seemed fine at the Regional meet.
Could be. Things seemed off kilter from the Wake Forest meet on. It seems clear that they paced that race based on her training times and consistent with what she ran in indoors in the mile and the DMRs, but she just did not have it. Then you have her own comments after the record at Soundrunning where she said she was having a really tough time in training. Then you have this podcast comment by a coach that Henes said that she has not been herself in training for several weeks. Still could have been just a bad meet or bad day or a poor race strategy, but my guess is that she got worn down by a long, eventful year. It is hard to run at a very high level all year, and I thought she started to wear down this time last year also.
My guess is she simply may have not been feeling well. Sickness?, heat?, who knows. No matter what race she would've run, it wasn't going to be pretty. I'm guessing she knew while warming up that it was not going to be a good run, and depending how she survived the 1500m would dictate if she would run 5000m.
She made the right choice in scratching from the 5000m. She'll recover and make a go at it at USA's. Does she win the 5000 being 100% healthy without running the 1500?, I say yes. Could she have pulled off the double being 100% healthy? Hmmm... It would've been a very good race to watch and VERY close.
No one said Parker is not the legitimate winner. Tuohy chose to double with the 1500m and it costs her. She wasn't there. What I said is that Tuohy very likely would have been able to defend her 5000m title if that was the only race she had decided to run. If you want to contend that the heat was such an onerous factor that it would have levelled the playing field, fine but I am not really buying that for last night's race. To the extent I am injecting that, this is a thread about Tuohy. Bottom line, it is not unreasonable whether you think it fair, appropriate or not. It is also completely academic.
We do not know what Tuohy's training looked like leading up to nationals. In hindsight it may have been a miscalculation, but it could just as well have been a bad day, not feeling well, etc. She was in the position of running a slower pace and potentially getting outkicked, or lifting the pace to avoid a kicking duel. Like you said, they knew that in advance. She reached the bell at 3:03. In hindsight it was a poor strategy, but it depends on how she was training for the race. Compare that to WF, where she reached the bell lap in 3:00.
If I have a criticism, it was not running the 1500 at the ACC. Seems odd not to run it and test her fitness and what pace was viable when they had the opportunity. That would have given information about whether doubling was worth trying.
You are totally off base about thinking less of her. The 1500/5000 double was a bear, especially on a hot night. If she was not feeling good or ill after the 1500 then she had no obligation whatsoever to run the 5000m. It was not like that could have been anticipated in advance. If you want to think less of her for that, well that seems very petty. When she was still dealing with injuries she ran a poor 1500 then ran a slow 5000 at regionals. She has dealt with adversity and bad races, so it seems very unfair to assume that she just opted out without there being a physical reason, such possible heat exhaustion.
You have been saying that Parker is not the legitimate 5000 winner. There are literally like 10 posts on here where you are saying a fresh Tuohy would have won. She chose not to focus on the 5K and she was not fresh and she scratched. Throwing in speculation seems like you are trying to tarnish Parker Valby's accomplishment. That is how it comes off. I get your point but it is just flat disrespectful to Valby to keep harping on about that. She won the title, fair and square.
Savannah Shaw did not get to run in the 5K NCAA final her senior year because Tuohy miscalculated her capacity. I think that sucks. It is understandable that this turned out to be much harder than she expected, but she should have seen it through. There were no surprises here. Everything that happened was 100% predictable on the day she declared. If the meet had been in Vermont and it was this hot and humid, I would give her a pass. If she had to run <4:05 in the 1500 I would also give her a pass. The weather was exactly what you would expect in Austin in June, and the winning time was square in the the prediction range. Nothing surprising happened here.
Maybe something is wrong. I hope not. But her run last night was consistent with her other races this outdoor season. This 1500 played out very similar to her race at Wake Forest. She has never once run a fast 1500 and come back to run anything better than 15:50 in the 5K in the same meet. Her performance last night was consistent. That field could go out hard and still outkick her. She didn't count on that.
I have a lot of respect for many of your posts and valuable insights about running on this sight. You are often the person who remembers details about past races and that adds so much to many of the conversations on here. On this matter we will have to agree to disagree. I am not bashing Tuohy or anything. I just think she bit off more than she could chew and that when she is unhappy with her result she can be a bad sport. Last night was Mia Ramsden's night, and it was also Parker Valby's night. There was no funny business. Last night they were the best to toe the line in their respective races. That is the point of a track meet. Speculation about what Tuohy might have done had she run is no less obnoxious than people speculating that Zophia Dudek would have beaten Tuohy if they had raced. She didn't. The conversation is pointless and it takes away the spotlight from the winner.
Just as we thought - something was physically wrong. So she wasn’t butt hurt or a coward after all. I hope the people saying such vile things will do some self reflection now. But I don’t count on it.
I’m calling BS on Tuohy having a physical problem. OF COURSE Henes would use that as an excuse to try to help Tuohy save face. Henes would never admit the truth about Tuohy being demoralized by losing in the 1500 and dreading the thought of having to face Valby in the 5000. Tuohy knew that Valby would push the pace as she always does, and Tuohy wanted no part of that.
If Tuohy had a physical problem then she wouldn’t have taken the lead in the 1500 the way she did. She would have run more conservatively. She still ran a solid time. Tuohy was fine physically. The problem was her deflated spirit.
This is what happens when the 'wanna be' boys club tries to make a supergirl hero out of a young girl. It wasn't physical it was stress put on her by the running community that got to her.
Even the LRC podcasters agreed. Disrespectful would be starting threads or crashing Valby's threads to argue that Tuohy would have won. I said from the beginning that this double was very risky because it was jeopardizing a very likely title in the 5000m. People are protesting way too much about a perfectly reasonable what if/oh well scenario. Again she just beat Valby doubling at regionals and would not have had to run the rounds in the 1500. Even worn down last year she ran a 15:19 slowing down at the line. But again, when I say it is academic it means the book has been written and Valby won fair and square.
You are being unfair about Henes/Tuohy miscalculating. She successfully pulled off the double at regionals, outkicking Ramsdan in the 1500 and easily beating Valby in the 5000m. And she has run in the heat before and won there. You are criticizing them really not for misjudgment but for the lack of clairvoyance that she would have a very bad day. How the hell would they know that in advance?
The only similarity to Wake Forest was that she faded, but she still ran 4:08.29 as opposed to 4:11, and she beat Ramsdan there as well. Looking at the 300/700/1100 splits at WF, it was 47.75, 152.99, and 300:69, compared to 47:90, 155.28 and 303.95 last night. And WF was her first race back after a break following Indoors. That is over a three second difference at the 1100, and was right in the 3:03 range that people were suggesting. So there are not really comparable. Tuohy went out slightly slower, but then slowed the pace down well below her WF pace.
And there was nothing wrong with scratching from the 5000m if she was not feeling well after the 1500m. She has been the consummate team runner from the moment she showed up at NCSt. Her coach looked out for her, which is the point, not satisfying the expectations of message board denizens.
Even the LRC podcasters agreed. Disrespectful would be starting threads or crashing Valby's threads to argue that Tuohy would have won. I said from the beginning that this double was very risky because it was jeopardizing a very likely title in the 5000m. People are protesting way too much about a perfectly reasonable what if/oh well scenario. Again she just beat Valby doubling at regionals and would not have had to run the rounds in the 1500. Even worn down last year she ran a 15:19 slowing down at the line. But again, when I say it is academic it means the book has been written and Valby won fair and square.
You are being unfair about Henes/Tuohy miscalculating. She successfully pulled off the double at regionals, outkicking Ramsdan in the 1500 and easily beating Valby in the 5000m. And she has run in the heat before and won there. You are criticizing them really not for misjudgment but for the lack of clairvoyance that she would have a very bad day. How the hell would they know that in advance?
The only similarity to Wake Forest was that she faded, but she still ran 4:08.29 as opposed to 4:11, and she beat Ramsdan there as well. Looking at the 300/700/1100 splits at WF, it was 47.75, 152.99, and 300:69, compared to 47:90, 155.28 and 303.95 last night. And WF was her first race back after a break following Indoors. That is over a three second difference at the 1100, and was right in the 3:03 range that people were suggesting. So there are not really comparable. Tuohy went out slightly slower, but then slowed the pace down well below her WF pace.
And there was nothing wrong with scratching from the 5000m if she was not feeling well after the 1500m. She has been the consummate team runner from the moment she showed up at NCSt. Her coach looked out for her, which is the point, not satisfying the expectations of message board denizens.
I'm not sure why you keep saying she "won" regionals. The point of regionals is just to qualify safely with as little energy expenditure as possible.
Because she won both her races there. She closed in 1:06 in the 5000m doubling back from the 1500m. You think Valby was holding back? Sure. Maybe people here can explain how that should have alerted Henes that Tuohy would have a bad day.
This post was edited 33 seconds after it was posted.
I have been one of the down voters of every "woulda coulda" post that astro has made about the 5000. It is completely inappropriate. Parker Valby won that race. 15:30 in that heat was a fast time. She is the legitimate winner. Parker went all-in on the 5K. Touhy made a different decision, and that decision rendered her a no-show. That is what actually happened yesterday, and Parker Valby deserves 100% credit for running a great race and winning her first NCAA championship. She toed the line after a season of injury against a talented field and she made it happen. I enjoyed watching her win. She was totally deserving. Astro, I usually enjoy your comments, but injecting a Tuohy fantasy into Parker's moment is just flat tacky. Just stop, please. Tuohy didn't show so it doesn't matter what she might have done. She didn't. Parker did. End of story.
Mia Ramsden ran a superb race. She executed that 1500 pretty perfectly, and she gained from Tuohy's foolishness. Tuohy should have known from Wake Forest how starting out that fast would end for her. She flew too close to the sun this time. It happens. But Mia Ramsden deserves a lot of credit for winning big against that stacked field.
I am finding myself perplexed by the events yesterday. Everything that happened was 100% predictable by this armchair fan, so it should have been apparent to Tuohy and Henes. When she declared for both events I assumed she was sitting on something truly special. They knew the 1500 field was loaded. They knew the race was in Austin in June. They knew she would have to run fast in the 1500 to have any chance. All of this was apparent from the onset. She made this decision. It turned out to be a poor decision. This 1500 played out very similar to her 1500 at Wake Forest. She knew how starting too fast would end for her. I just don't understand the decision making here. Henes now has the distinction as the first coach to take a talent like Tuohy and produce an incredibly poor result. What she is doing with that very talented team does not seem to be working.
I think less of Tuohy for not showing up for the 5000. She put this out there. She knew the conditions. There was nothing wrong with her. She was butt-hurt and did not want to lose to Parker. Showing up and giving her best and seeing her commitment through would have been the classy thing to do. Instead, she basically gets credit as a ghost runner from rabid fans and takes away the spotlight from the deserving winner. Declaring this double was a bad decision, but it was her decision and she had all of the facts going in and she had an obligation to see the thing through.
The woman who lost a spot because of this (13th at regionals) was Savannah Shaw, her teammate and a senior. I think that really sucks.
I am still a fan, but I would have had some serious respect for her showing up and not dodging the loss. Parker Valby crushed it. She ran that race on pure heart and she deserves all of the credit due for winning an NCAA championship. Parker was the one who showed up at 9:55 ready to go, and Tuohy didn't through her own decisions. Britton Wilson showed up. She saw her commitment through. That is class.
I agree with some of this, especially the part about how Henes could have misjudged this so much.
But, the psychologizing of people on this board that she was "butt-hurt" or "weasling" out of something or didn't have "class" is whack. Like, really??! She looked really bad and may very well have been feeling too unwell in the heat after that race to double. All the judgement into her mindset or character is unnecessary. She isn't the only runner to scratch either - Dylan Jacobs did too with far more recovery time and I dont see endless posts of vitriol.
Re Valby - she crushed it. I have been saying for a while that she performs really well in the heat and boy she did.
Talk about what Tuohy could have done is irrelevant because
1) she didn't show
2) it was not her day her yesterday, (imho doubt she would have won regardless based on what we saw through the prelims and final)
3) Valby is the winner and seemed totally unfazed by the hot conditions, maybe moreso than any runner at the meet men or women on the distance side
No. They talked to her coach, she weasled out because she (or at least the coach anyway) said this was too small a stage for her. I'll go as far to say maybe its all on her coach and she was ready to fire up an effort in the 5k. But, she was going to run the 5 until she saw she wasnt having good legs. Can you imagine if someone did that in the NBA or NHL finals? She didnt want to have to walk across that track and shake PVs hand, or her coach wouldnt let her run. It was one of those based on what they said. Or...they had terrible, terrible plan on a hot day. Lots of people run knowing they might not win.