Joshua Cheptegei 10,000m record assault - Official Discussion Thread 

Jo72 wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

So you guys really think that Shelby Houlihan ran 14:24 in traditional, 2017-ish era spikes, and Gidey ran 14:06 in Dragonflies, but the shoes confer a huge benefit on the athlete? You don't think Gidey is 18ish seconds better than Houlihan over 5000?

Maybe. But as the preview pointed out, Gidey has never won a top level 5000m race in the last 3 years. If she can run 14:06 with last night's conditions, I'd think that 2015 Genzebe D., 2016 Ayana, 2017-18 Obiri or 2019 Hassan could have run 13:59. It looked so easy that it is hard to believe how Ayana or Genzebe could miss 14:11 with several tries in good shape (Hassan never tried and I am not sure how seriously Obiri tried).

Ayana most probably. Obiri is a bit of a kicker, she could easily fail to hold pace for that long. She has faded in some races. Hassan a reluctant may be. On her last year's form, she cd have, but again, i think it's more about the athlete's current shape. You saw how some pacers in the 10k were whizzing. If you venture outside your pace for even a bit, you are done for the WR challenge. Happened to Barega in Ostrava, tried to go too fast. Once an endurance over kick type of runner like Cheptegei or Gidey is in peak form, they stand a chance. Everyone knows the pace/lap....it's holding it that is the hard part. Cheptegei can hold same high pace throughout, Gidey started a bit slower then upped it. To each their own tactics, but it's the peak shape that is the determinant.

Of course some capable athletes have been ducking the attempt, usually when you attempt and fail, it's a big disappointment. And some lack the confidence to try, the times looked too out there. Truth is except under perfect conditions, and an unusually fast paced race, most athletes are comfortable running early 27:00s and kicking for the win if they still feel strong in the 10k. 26:50s will always spread out the runners, single file with some getting lapped. So 26:17 has been that far away.

Let me add that Ayana's 5k has always left me with more questions than answers. She broke Genzebe Dibaba in 2015 World's but lost both 2016 Olympics and 2017 World's 5ks. I am not sure if it's because she was always tired from the 10k coming before the 5k or she is just much better in the 10k with a strong 2nd 5k, than in an outright 5k only. After her 10k WR, I expected her to assault the 5k but she did. Yet it's doubtful she will ever be in such shape again.

Anthos wrote:

Once an endurance over kick type of runner like Cheptegei or Gidey is in peak form, they stand a chance. Everyone knows the pace/lap....it's holding it that is the hard part. Cheptegei can hold same high pace throughout, Gidey started a bit slower then upped it. To each their own tactics, but it's the peak shape that is the determinant.

Of course some capable athletes have been ducking the attempt, usually when you attempt and fail, it's a big disappointment. And some lack the confidence to try, the times looked too out there.

Yes, there is a reason that Sifan Hassan has not attempted the 5,000 record . She likes to attack the records in an even more exaggerated version of what Gidey did. See her mile record where she basically went (approx. 440y splits): 64.8, 64.3, 62.0, 61.2. She can close like a train just like Dibaba (likely a 2:07 or faster in a fast 5000) but could she have the focus and commitment to run all sub-70 laps from 2000-4200 unless there is an athlete in her sights?

Obiri is uneven (cf. Doha 10k vs. 5k) but in last year's world cross she looked strained halfway through the race and I was pretty sure she would fade but she won against Gidey and another one who had kept up fairly long. Of course it is also a question of tactics. Gidey tried a fast last 1k in Stanford and Brussels and finished strongly but not good enough for Hassan. Anyway, Gidey improves her PB by ~16 secs and easily beat a world record a number of runners she would usually lose to in 2018-19 had failed to break. This is certainly an indication that the conditions last night were very much amplifying her strengths or one would have to conclude that she considerably underperformed e.g. in Monaco in August.

After all these years of people getting mad about runners not being brace and going with the pacers, the meets upgraded the pacers and encouraged runners to for records and...now people hate pacers.

I don't follow track shoes but if these new Dragonflies are anything like the shoes used at Doha, they are a second faster per lap for most elites depending on pace based on analysis after the impossible records that emerged there despite the horrible weather.

We're not seriously going to argue it can't be the shoes anymore right?

I mean not after four years of this nonsense.

These are records for now, then more elites will also use the same shoes and there will be more records next year and then faster shoes will come out and it's the endless circle of tech "cheating".

Can't compare old records to new. Even the track surface at Doha and the Tokyo Olympics are using a new directed high-energy-return tech that never existed before.

Wow what a run!!

I never thought I would see a stud runner running 27:28 for 10,000 meters get lapped. But I just saw with my own eyes.

.02 off. Wow!!!

I do not follow races longer than 1,500M except when Dibaba (the older sister) competed because they are too darn boring, But isn't the women's record akin to Rogers breaking Bolt's record? Is this a one and done or will we now see domination at this distance?