Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

Here are the splits per 5k (if I did my math right -- I kind of rushed so let me know if I messed up)

5k 0:20:07 (6:29)

10k 18:46 (6:02)

15k 20:00 (6:26)

20k 20:10 (6:30)

25k 23:31 (7:34)

30k 19:02 (6:07)

35k 19:13 (6:11)

40k 24:28 (7:53)

42.195 9:38 (7:03)

So he ran 18:36 for the 5k between 30-35K (includes all of the Newton hills including Heartbreak.) That's sub-6 pace after splitting the half in 1:23? In sweatpants?

The preceeding 20-25K was 22 minutes. That is perhaps the easiest portion of the course, past Wellesley and includes part of the steep downhill afterward. Pace then went faster a minute per mile for a 19 min 5K between 25-30K which is another somewhat hard part with the overpass over the highway. Last 5K 25 minutes. Just an observation...

Anyone know how the splits from 2010 compare to 2009?

Would be interesting if they followed the same pattern...

2009 splits wrote:

Anyone know how the splits from 2010 compare to 2009?

Would be interesting if they followed the same pattern...

have the 2010 splits plotted right here

compare?

Florida Midtimer wrote:

So he ran 18:36 for the 5k between 30-35K (includes all of the Newton hills including Heartbreak.) That's sub-6 pace after splitting the half in 1:23? In sweatpants?

We think Kip appeared in the black sweatsuit in 2010 in the Jim Rhodes photos.

What did he wear in 2009? i thought it was a white longsleeve with bib flapping on shorts?

The white shirt was 2007 photo that someone dug up also from jim rhodes. 2009 was black sweatpants.

Those splits are definetely suspicious. Even if I didn't know they were Kip's I'd still say suspicious. I can buy the first 10k. It's easy to go out blazing early on that course, and the slower first 5k could be foot traffic. Welesly is another fast section, but a slower split could be a poop break. The big thing that stands out is how fast he ran through Newton. The splits show he ran fastest through the hardest part. I do recall the last few miles having a lot of downhill. Based on the slower pace and Kip's past, I bet he realized he was gonna get too fast of a time and held back. If he were a legit runner, then I'd say he just blew up and ran like crap at the end.

Florida Midtimer wrote:

The white shirt was 2007 photo that someone dug up also from jim rhodes. 2009 was black sweatpants.

oh, where are the 2009 photos in black sweatpants?

SOKLR wrote:

2009 splits wrote:

Anyone know how the splits from 2010 compare to 2009?

Would be interesting if they followed the same pattern...

Split 2009 (pace) 2010 (pace)

5K 20:07 (6:29) 20:00 (6:26)

10K 18:46 (6:02) 19:39 (6:19)

15K 20:00 (6:26) 19:41 (6:21)

20K 20:10 (6:30) 20:21 (6:33)

25K 23:31 (7:34) 22:37 (7:17)

30K 19:02 (6:07) 19:42 (6:20)

35K 19:13 (6:11) 20:14 (6:31)

40K 24:28 (7:53) 20:31 (6:36)

42.195K 9:38 (7:03) 9:28 (7:02)

1st Half 1:23:47 1:25:30

2nd Half 1:31:08 1:26:42

Marathon 2:54:55 2:52:12

My read into this is that Kip realized in 2010 that the 2009 splits at 30K and 35K were 'too good' and made them more realistic in 2010.

But I don't believe either year was legit. Why?

1) Cheating at too many other marathons in 2009 and 2010. Why should Boston be any different?

2) A look at Kip's legit 5K performances

shows he was at best a 19:15 min 5K runner. Marathon performance times don't equate. The three 5K's in the 17 min range have all been disputed, as well as the 18:27 (4 min. start delay) at Gasparilla in 2009 - see:

In 2008, also at the Gasparilla 5K, he had only a 13 sec start delay and ran 22:52. Not listed in Athlinks.com, but listed here:

The 22:52 looks fully legit. The only other undisputed 5K time he has after Jan. 2007 is a 20:39 on 7/18/07.

Thus, I don't think any of Kip's sub-3:05 marathons were legit, covering the period from 12/17/06 - 9/12/10.

SOKLR wrote:

oh, where are the 2009 photos in black sweatpants?

See post from "boston pics" on p. 125 at 11/6/2011 11:15AM.

So he's a 3:05 guy who cheats to run 2:50s...?

His true PR may be close to or under 3hrs (or maybe just mid 3hrs) but his mistake was he tried to string together lots of sub3hr marathons within a very short time period. Added pressure being from trying to go on a 50state spree. Probably didn't realize that when you do this, you're not going to run even close to your PB each time.

Probably Missoula was his most impressive performance has it been legit (for one, it yields the highest VDOT yield on a Jack Daniels scale), because it was a 2:49 finish plus it was at 3100ft altitude, which is like a 2:44 at sea level, plus Kip's not really spending time at altitude I don't think.

Actually at New Mexico marathon in Albuquerque (approx 5000ft altitude) Kip came across in the 2:50s for 2nd overall, which is another performance of his that has got to convert to something 2:40s at sea level -maybe like another mid to low 240s. Crazy because that pace at sea level would be pretty close to his 5k pace I'm guessing. There was an earlier post that the 4th or 5th place finisher swears one of the top finishers cheated at NewMexico marathon, but I think it was in one of the threads that was deleted last year (2010).

j'ai faim wrote:

So he's a 3:05 guy who cheats to run 2:50s...?

Either that or a 3:15 guy who cheats to run 2:50s... take your pick.

I saw Kip at the mall yesterday.He has a movember stash that must be 3wks old.He told me he started after everyone else but has already caught and past most people already.

j'ai faim wrote:

So he's a 3:05 guy who cheats to run 2:50s...?

Kip ran 1 marathon a year from 2003 - 2005: 3:20, 3:08, 3:23. Was rounding when I mentioned 3:05.

I think he was a former 3:08 guy who found that as he reached late 40's that he wasn't going to break 3:20 anymore.

quote]kirkaz wrote:

His true PR may be close to or under 3hrs (or maybe just mid 3hrs) but his mistake was he tried to string together lots of sub3hr marathons within a very short time period. Added pressure being from trying to go on a 50state spree. Probably didn't realize that when you do this, you're not going to run even close to your PB each time.

Probably Missoula was his most impressive performance has it been legit (for one, it yields the highest VDOT yield on a Jack Daniels scale), because it was a 2:49 finish plus it was at 3100ft altitude, which is like a 2:44 at sea level, plus Kip's not really spending time at altitude I don't think.

Actually at New Mexico marathon in Albuquerque (approx 5000ft altitude) Kip came across in the 2:50s for 2nd overall, which is another performance of his that has got to convert to something 2:40s at sea level -maybe like another mid to low 240s. Crazy because that pace at sea level would be pretty close to his 5k pace I'm guessing. There was an earlier post that the 4th or 5th place finisher swears one of the top finishers cheated at NewMexico marathon, but I think it was in one of the threads that was deleted last year (2010).[/quote]

Even more impressive is that's Kip's Missoula Marathon performance took place the very next day after the "West Wyoming Marathon"

Add this:

Jacksonville 2006:

In the lost and found:

http://www2.brightroom.com/11293/browse/lost

Top left picture from the start (>2 min lag). Hat, bandana, long gray shirt, number covered, Boston marathon distinctive shorts.

Contrast with the finishing pix which are the only ones for his number (no mid-race ones, unlike the guy who got second in the age group) : White shirt, same shorts, different hat, mirrored glasses.

http://www2.brightroom.com/11293/198

Men 45 - 49

198 20 1 Kip Litton, 45, Clarkston, MI 1:26:49 2:58:08 3:00:11 6:53

316 26 2 Ed Reid, 47, Bradenton, FL 1:29:30 3:02:05 3:02:07 6:57

552 28 3 Rex Noble, 46, Palm City, FL 1:30:16 3:02:23 3:02:30 6:58

47 29 4 Tom Louderback, 45, Jacksonville, FL 1:25:46 3:02:16 3:02:38 6:58

1043 71 5 Brian Copeland, 49, Ft Lauderdale, FL 1:37:40 3:15:55 3:16:45 7:31

If you desired you could cut the Jax course quite easily at several spots. It is very spread out in the sub 3 range of runners. The splits would indicate a 1:24 half split. This was 2006 - compare to 5Ks etc...

LOL...that's impressive...most people don't realize how tough it is to recover from imaginary races-- the mental effort is draining.

Race detective wrote:

Kip ran 1 marathon a year from 2003 - 2005: 3:20, 3:08, 3:23. Was rounding when I mentioned 3:05.

I think he was a former 3:08 guy who found that as he reached late 40's that he wasn't going to break 3:20 anymore.

Has anyone else noticed that in the pictures from earlier races (3-4 years ago) Kip looked a lot fitter and more athletic, as if he were a real runner? Of course, aging has an effect on muscle tone, etc, but in the more recent pictures he just does not look to have anywhere near his former condition, which would make sense, since he is not really running that much -- maybe just a few miles of his marathons.