Doesn't Russian Doping Scandal Prove Canova is Right about EPO?

"2) Why did the Africans improve more?"

Compared with the 1980's? No, can't think of any reason why athletics was less developed in Ethiopia in the 1980's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983

–1985_famine_in_Ethiopia

It's not like there was inter tribal violence in the early days of Daniel Arap Moi's regime in Kenya.

Of course both had rural populations who had leisure time, access to coaches, and could afford to run full time due to the money in athletics available to unknown Africans in the 1980's, so they all chose to do it.

Wait a minute, I think I may have spotted why comparing the relative improvement of first world and third world countries, between now and an era when famine and violent Civil unrest hit Africa, and running was not an economically viable option may be about as dumb as it can get. Any idiot who can't spot the confounding factors needs to stfu.

"Russian athletics senior endurance coach Aleksey Melnikov told the whistleblower in the ARD documentary on a hidden recording that "they poured so much (drugs) into her (Savinova-Farsonova)."

The WADA report found that while her steroid passport was normal, her haematological passport was considered as "likely doping" by two of the three lab experts who reviewed her profiles.

Given her admissions on the recordings, and Melnikov's statement, the investigating committee has recommended a life ban from sport for Savinova-Farsonova and her coach Kazarin, as well as the bronze medallist in her race in London, Ekaterina Poistogova.

Poistogova was identified in the ARD secret video recordings admitting that she "prepares for summer" competition by taking 10 pills of oxandrolone, and also said she had taken the banned substance EPO.

Her biological results were clear, but based on the interviews, the committee has pushed for a life ban."

Three other Russian athletes, Anastasiya Bazdyreva (400m / 800m runner), Kristina Ugarova (1,500m runner) and Tatjana Myazina are also facing possible lifetime bans.

Wiki:

"Oxandrolone is much less androgenic than anabolic, so women and those seeking less intense steroid regimens use it particularly often.[9] Many also value oxandrolone's low hepatotoxicity relative to most other orally active steroids.[9] The infamous "duchess" cocktail administered to Russian athletes at the Sochi Winter Olympics consisted of Oxandrolone, Methenolone and Trenbolone."

Savinova smoked the field in the London 800m final with a WL of 1:56.19. She could have jogged the last 20m - wasn't even fatigued at the finish. Even Semenya looked stunned. And don't forget Savinova's training partner, Poistogova, who is also alleged to have doped, finished with Bronze running a PB:

Look at Savinova's background: Going from average at 2:06 in 2008 to 1:58 in 09, and now an Olympic champ 😨. This is a good example of a high-responder to the synergistic effects of 02-vector doping & steriods.

This nonsense that 02-vector doping isn't that effective with endurance athletes is ridiculous and makes people who think this naive...imagine that 😁

Update Ethiopian doper for Sweden (managed by Jos Hermens):

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sport-doping-sweden-aregawi-idUSKCN0ZU2CC

Update Ethiopian doper:

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1034922/ethiopian-tokyo-marathon-winner-negesse-reportedly-fails-drugs-test-for-meldonium

Update Ethiopian dopers:

http://www.chevronhoustonmarathon.com/birhanu-gedefa-declared-2016-mens-marathon-winner/

Update Ethiopian doper for Turkey:

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2016/03/31/elvan-abeylegesse-banned-two-years-doping-turkish-athletics-track-and-field

She finished second in the women's 10,000 meters to claim the silver medal. Kara Goucher of the United States took bronze while Jo Pavey of Great Britain was left out of the medals with a fourth place finish.

One year later, Abeylegesse won silver medals in the 5,000 meters and 10,000 meters at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. In the 10,000 meters, she finished ahead of American Shalane Flanagan, who ran the American record of 30:22.22 for bronze.

Abeylegesse had been suspended after news of several re-tested samples from the 2005 and 2007 world championships showed elite athletes using banned substances. She reportedly tested positive for the steroid Stanozolol.

In conclusion:

1) It is time for Kara Goucher to receive the Silver Medal in the 10,000m at the 2007 World Championships.

2) It is time for Jo Pavey to receive the Bronze Medal in the 10,000m at the 2007 World Championships.

3) It is time for Shalane Flanagan to receive the Silver Medal in the 10,000m at the 2008 Olympics.

The Gold Medalist in the 10,000m at the 2007 World Championships and 2008 Olympics was Tirunesh Dibaba from Ethiopia.

Let's take a look at the hotel Tirunesh Dibaba was staying at during Operation Rial in Sabadell, Spain:

https://cdn.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/list-of-aden-athletes.jpg

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/jama-aden-doping-raid-update-might-raid-impact-mo-farah-dibabas-nike/

It is just a coincidence.

No worries.

The 2016 Olympic Gold Medalist in the 10,000m was Almaz Ayana from Ethiopia.

Her manager is:

Jos Hermens from the NETHERLANDS.

Almaz Ayana set a new World Record of 29:17.45 in the race, which broke the old WR of 29:31.78 that was held by Wang Junxia from China…which was set in 1993.

No worries.

Gasser wrote:

Savinova smoked the field in the London 800m final with a WL of 1:56.19. She could have jogged the last 20m - wasn't even fatigued at the finish. Even Semenya looked stunned. And don't forget Savinova's training partner, Poistogova, who is also alleged to have doped, finished with Bronze running a PB...

Look at Savinova's background: Going from average at 2:06 in 2008 to 1:58 in 09, and now an Olympic champ 😨. This is a good example of a high-responder to the synergistic effects of 02-vector doping & steriods.

This nonsense that 02-vector doping isn't that effective with endurance athletes is ridiculous and makes people who think this naive...imagine that 😁

Because there is very much anecdotal evidence on the efficacy of rEPO, I find it always very suspicious why people feel need to represent material in insincere way either cherry picking years and data or blatantly lying about athletes' performances. According to IAAF records, here are the seasonal bests of Mariya Savinova between 2007-2012, and it is clear that there is no "sudden" 8 second improvement in one year, but the improvement is more or less linear.

outdoor / indoor

2007 2:00.78 / 2:03.90

2008 2:01.07 / 1:59.46

2009 1:57.90 / 1:58.10

2010 1:57.56 / 1:58.26

2011 1:55.8

2012 1:56.19

The 3.07 second improvement from 2008 to 2009 looks suspicious, but she actually broke the 2 minute mark already in February 2008 (1:59.46).

The Olympic Gold Medalist in the 800m was also taking the anabolic steroid oxandrolone, which is in the Seppelt video.

Would you like to argue that the anabolic steroid oxandrolone was of no benefit to Savinova…or possibly only a placebo effect?

An excellent example of the Anabolic Steroid Placebo Effect is the world record holder in the women's 800m... Ms. Jarmila Kratochvilova at 1:53.28…which was set in 1983:

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/90302523-jarmila-kratochvilova-of-czechoslovakia-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXnLeV8y2b%2f8DiTalbXlhuYp4YmS5UBmWhl%2bLJkTtrKpp

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/11/22/300B77A900000578-0-image-m-27_1452549996865.jpg

Was she in the band called "The Who"?

Do you think that she looks like Roger Daltrey?

Not another self-proclaimed expert who naively believes that 02-vector doping and steriods or HGH can't turn an average elite runner who's a high-responder to a World/Olympic Champion. Savinova's competition records from Wikipedia shows 2:06 & change in the 08 WIC to 1:58's in the 09 EIC & World's:

And I find it very annoying when these self-proclaimed "experts" try to undermine the role that PEDs can play in sports, as well as defend a career doper! 😞. Perhaps you need to watch the London 800m final on the video posted. She destroyed a World-class field! She beat Semenya, who already has a genetic advantage with her hyperandrogenism. She beat one of the top Kenyan middle-distance runners. She beat U.S.A.'s best that year in Montoya. And allegations are that Savinova & Poistogova (Bronze) used an EPO & Oxandrolone stack...in which WADA's calling for a lifetime ban. So, who got screwed out of a Bronze medal here? Wanna tell Montoya that Savinova would have won anyway without that PED combination? Montoya's coach had warned her prior to the finals that the Russian contigent was doped-up and her chances of medaling didn't look very good. You can Google her story and get more details. Maybe you support doping in sports 😨

I've seen some of your posts...I'm not sure what your objective is in trying to undermine the significant performance benefit with 02-vector doping combined with other PEDs with a "high-responder" The key here is HIGH-RESPONDER. Not all athletes respond in the same fashion with 02-vector doping particulary when used synergistic with other PEDs. We've seen this in many endurance sports. There are no studies with O2-vector doping nor 02-vector doping combined with other PEDs & elite athletes...none. Some athletes don't seem to respond very well while others practically become overnight sensations. Next thing, you're probably going to postulate that Armstrong didn't get that much of a benefit from O2-vector doping and HGH/roids when he went from average one-day stage rider to 7-time Tour Champ 😁

I think horse racing proves out that drugs are not the be-all, end-all to running faster. Check this great article about the sub-2hr Project, but basically no horse has been able to better Secretariat's time of 1:59, even with all the doping that goes on in horse racing with some pretty powerful anabolics and EPO.

I do agree on one aspect of Canova - I do believe I would be marginally faster if I took drugs because I would psychologically feel like Superman.. almost what the author is stating why the horse records haven't improved, because most of the gains are MENTAL.

http://rw.runnersworld.com/sub-2/

khow wrote:

I think horse racing proves out that drugs are not the be-all, end-all to running faster. Check this great article about the sub-2hr Project, but basically no horse has been able to better Secretariat's time of 1:59, even with all the doping that goes on in horse racing with some pretty powerful anabolics and EPO.

I do agree on one aspect of Canova - I do believe I would be marginally faster if I took drugs because I would psychologically feel like Superman.. almost what the author is stating why the horse records haven't improved, because most of the gains are MENTAL.

http://rw.runnersworld.com/sub-2/

Bingo Jon Orange!

Here is a fun article on anabolic steroids:

There is no discussion of the anabolic steroid PLACEBO EFFECT.

The anabolic steroids oxandrolone (Anavar) and stanozolol (Winstrol) were favorites of Leonid Shvetsov when he lived in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Many famous athletes trained there…including Ms. Paula Radcliffe and Gabriela Szabo, N. Morceli, Khalid Skah, etc...

= >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anabolic steroid "placebo effect"

khow wrote:

I think horse racing proves out that drugs are not the be-all, end-all to running faster. Check this great article about the sub-2hr Project, but basically no horse has been able to better Secretariat's time of 1:59, even with all the doping that goes on in horse racing with some pretty powerful anabolics and EPO.

Or it proves how powerful the drugs are, namely if the horses of the 70s were more doped because of lack of control tests. For example, ELISA came in 88.

That is reminiscent of all the records in athletics of the 80s, some of which are still unbeaten.

...And 4) It is time for Alysia Montano to receive the Bronze Medal in the 800m at the 2012 Olympics. 👍

Gasser wrote:

Not another self-proclaimed expert who naively believes that 02-vector doping and steriods or HGH can't turn an average elite runner who's a high-responder to a World/Olympic Champion... I find it very annoying when these self-proclaimed "experts" try to undermine the role that PEDs can play in sports, as well as defend a career doper... Maybe you support doping in sports... I'm not sure what your objective is in trying to undermine the significant performance benefit with 02-vector doping combined with other PEDs with a "high-responder" The key here is HIGH-RESPONDER... Next thing, you're probably going to postulate that Armstrong didn't get that much of a benefit from O2-vector doping and HGH/roids when he went from average one-day stage rider to 7-time Tour Champ...

Just to clarify my post, the criticism wasn't that much directed specifically against you but I used your post to illustrate the point of many people to cherry pick evidence. I have noticed this Modus Operandi in some other posters in this and other forums as well as in some published material (see page 11 of this thread).

Leaving aside the all the OFFtopic-issues and ad hominem attacks you brought up in your fanatical rant, I'd appreciate if you could clarify the issue on when exactly did Mrs. Savinova started gaining speed the enormous boost from her PED-program that turned "a high responder to a World/Olympic Champion". Here I rearranged her seasonal best times chronologically combining both the indoor and outdoor figures for every year. I am not claiming that she didn't take PED nor that there couldn't exist speed gain from her questionable habits, but the progress is linear, in my opinion.

2007

2:03.90 (Feb)

2:00.78 (Jul)

2008

1:59.46 (Feb)

2:01.07 (May)

2009

1:58.10 (Mar)

1:57.90 (Jul)

2010

(indoor)

1:58.26 (Mar)

1:57.56 (Jul)

2011

1:55.87 (Sep)

2012

1:56.19 (Aug)

rjm33 wrote:

The Olympic Gold Medalist in the 800m was also taking the anabolic steroid oxandrolone, which is in the Seppelt video.

Would you like to argue that the anabolic steroid oxandrolone was of no benefit to Savinova…or possibly only a placebo effect?

An excellent example of the Anabolic Steroid Placebo Effect is the world record holder in the women's 800m... Ms. Jarmila Kratochvilova at 1:53.28…which was set in 1983:

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/90302523-jarmila-kratochvilova-of-czechoslovakia-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXnLeV8y2b%2f8DiTalbXlhuYp4YmS5UBmWhl%2bLJkTtrKpphttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/11/22/300B77A900000578-0-image-m-27_1452549996865.jpg

Was she in the band called "The Who"?

Do you think that she looks like Roger Daltrey?

Whooooo are you? Who, who, who, who.

Talking about my generation .

Roger Daltrey is way richer, which begs the question why aren't we all in rock bands?

Also, I've had large quads since I was 13, hers are bigger than mine.

Answer:

Savinova was doped for the entire time period with anabolic steroids and EPO. Linear doping caused linear improvement to 1:55.87 in the 800m and the Olympic Gold Medal went to a Russian Doper-Cheater.

Aragon says:

DOPING WITH ANABOLIC STEROIDS AND EPO = "questionable habits"

What a joke.

Ha ha ha