What is everyone's problem with the US Army runners being Kenyan?

You should start here:

https://www.bch.org/behavioral-health/mental-health-services.aspx

Alan

QSI:

- Love ya brother ... once you peel back the layers, it's easy to put together.

- Katam's no coincidence, he's part of the WCA "Buddy Program" along with Chelimo. Both guys took their scholarship's & then bolted as soon as they could couple their graduation reqmnts w/enlistment. Pay's a helluva lot better than the Kenyan Police or Army if they returned to Eldoret.

- See my post's before ... this really started in 2009 w/WCAP. Most likely Major Dan "The Scam" Browne's ideal .....

Double standard wrote:

How comes Hillary bor is not in WCAP. He is listed to have run 8:27 in steeplechase and he made the finals. The WCAP standard is 8:32. I am not sure if it's guarantee to be in the program or theread is some kind of double standards

- I think he is ....just not pictured on their website.

- If so, looks like he didn't want to join Major Dan "The Scam" Browne wasting taxpayer money training in Oregon versus Fort Carsonn. Then again, he may be trying to be a LEGITIMATE soldier -- balancing service (miltary duty) w/self (running). I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt .... pulling for him!

LIrunner wrote:

Soldier responsibility. All Soldiers assigned to WCAP will receive and sign a memorandum outlining requirements to maintain their military careers while assigned to the program. National rankings and international competition will not interfere with normal military progression. All WCAP personnel are Soldiers first.

Per diem and expenses while at the training site and return travel to original airport of departure (meaning their original unit) are

paid by the host installation’s IMCOM Region single MWR fund from NAFs made available by FMWRC.

NAFs are non-appropriated dollars - meaning not tax payer dollars (money that comes from MWR activities on post such as Post Exchnage - a store like a Walmart, bowling alley etc).

Recap - Soldiers first, time in WCAP doesnt count towards their enlistment contract so they will serve their full enlistment contract in a line unit and tax payers dont fund this program.

- Colonel .... I'll give you props ... you are the noble WCAP Apologetic

- That said, laughing my ass off on this one: "National rankings and international competition will not interfere with normal military progression. All WCAP personnel are Soldiers first." C'moron MAAAAN!

- Get past the "cut and paste" .... read CPT Pennington's post --- this applies to only soldiers in line units, not for those like Major Dan "The Scam" Browne and his WCAP Rift Valley Foreign Legion. So far, I'm counting Lt Cheseret and Sgt Bor .... the rest?

Different Program wrote:

There are programs designed to recruit foreign applicants with special skills that are required for military purposes. Members have the ability to fast track citizenship and have an expectation of actually serving for military reasons.

Running fast is not a special skill that is of particular importance.

Do not mix up a program that is primarily a recruiting/marketing/ego trip program supported by tax payer dollars without adding to the safety of the real soldiers that are deployed to high risk areas.

Keep in mind that the Olympics are of political importance to America (less so today, but think about it in the context of the Cold War, or even the Hitler Olympics) let's face it, America uses the Olympics to promote nationalism, and winning medals is number 1 on the list off things that help that mission. I'm speaking as someone who dislikes nationalism, but if Athe government wants to manufacture patriotism through the games, personally training the athletes is their way to do it. Sadly, all sport is tainted by politics.

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CPT Pennington:

- A most righteous post ... freaking A, a 2:19 & well-done by your compradres as well.

- Based on my research the past few days ... WCAP began to transform before the 2012 Olympics and now is "full steam ahead" as you can see in 2016. It wasn't enough to encourage real soldiers like yourself to come "off the line"' for a few years & get an OT qualifier. Now, unfortunately, it's all about recruiting the top Kenyan NCAA graduates to enlsit and subsequently join WCAP in the wake of Basic Training and AIT. Fast from an American standard, have college degree, green card/student visa expiring, few opportunities back in Kenya, still dreaming of the Olympics .... you get my drift: EZ enlistment. What's not to like from their perspective --- no deployments, decent salary, double-dip w/shoe contract, etc. etc. I have seen few examples, other than Lt Cheseret or Sgt Bor, of WCAP's Rift Valley Foregn Legion who've returned to the operating forces like yourself & fellow officers/NCOs from your WCAP (Pure) days.

- WCAP has not interest in DEVELOPMENT for the promising rank & file like yourself .... I mean, if you're Major Dan "The Scam" Browne --- he's looking at a Legion of Merit for this Olympic effort.

- Good on you & HOOA!

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- Not a Army core task ....

- Understand what you're saying

Runningart2004 wrote:

You should start here:

https://www.bch.org/behavioral-health/mental-health-services.aspx

Alan

- Thanks SSgt

- Now please get back to the homework I gave you ... think about this WCAP SCAM ... not even West Point school record holders are accepted!

This quote from Katam when he left UNCG early

""The Army is going to pay for me to finish my undergrad and to go to graduate school," Katam, 23, said by phone this morning."

Another benefit of service. Before I'm done I'll have a masters degree through the Army.

Alan

I hesitate to advertise that the AF also has a WCAP program. I do so because I want to highlight the differences in the two service's programs and also brag about the awesome performances that they have produced despite not recruiting talent. The AF program is a two year program that takes members from within the AF, mostly recent or past USAFA grads. Outside of the two years the member goes back to his/her duties. This year we have multiple pole vaulters, and one made The Team, as well as competitors trying to make the team in the marathon, 5k, 1500 (I am probably missing several events) I participated in WCAP twice in 98 and 02 and qualified for 2x Olympic trials. Even back then there were differences in approaches. The Army recruited athletes for a 3 year program back then, asking for 1 year of regular service before returning to athletics. Shawn Found, Sam Wilbur, and Brad Hudson were guys that were recruited or decided to come into the Army primarily to take advantage of WCAP, there were also several USMA grads, Dan Brown being one of them. Of those three recruits, Shawn Found was the only one to make the Army a career (still serving as a chaplain). My point is that the Army program has always recruited talent for WCAP, for WCAP sake. The AF program does not. I personally don't see a difference in whether someone is also using it as their road to citizenship. Good on them. A recruit is a recruit though. I like the "blue collar" approach of the AF using the talent within the service to advertise and allow Airmen to "be all you can be", "Aim High" etc...before going back to their regular career (plus additional service commitment for the opportunity to compete for 2 years). I wish the Army would use a similar model, but do not begrudge anyone who has served via WCAP and honestly served any additional commitments incurred. P.S. I am working on my 21st year of AD service.

- Lt Col Eric Mack

You're delusional and obviously have an axe to grind. The Army sees WCAP as bringing positive attention to the military. In a way it's advertising. If it takes paying a major's salary that's small potatoes compared to what the Army spend on other crap.

There's no scam here, nor has MAJ Browne done anything wrong. He's well respected and as another poster pointed out actually gave up promotion opportunities to continue with WCAP -- as being a major this far along in one's career is underwhelming to say the least.

Had he gone the normal route he'd at least be a LTC and perhaps looking at full Colonel.

I suspect most people here have some misplaced jealousy. But trust me it's very misplaced. The opportunities outside of WCAP for coaching and running are much better in almost all respects. There is sacrifice involved whether you choose to believe it or not.

Source: Was friends with -- and ran with -- WCAP runners at Fort Carson and I'm a retired officer with 22 years of experience. I also met Dan Browne years ago and know several people who were trained with or by him.

Again, you're clueless here and have no experience with WCAP. I have personal experience with the program. There are plenty of runners on the team who are not Kenyan. Dan Browne himself was a product of the team. I could name others but you're obviously pretty stubborn and bitter. I doubt you care to listen.

Do some research yourself on what I've said. Otherwise you clearly have no intention of being objective and therefore have some personal axe to grind on MAJ Browne or the Army system.

Hope your marathon times were a lot better.

LtCol Mack:

- Well said

- I agree w/the USAF approach .... Brett Hyde (RIP)!

- From where I sit .... US Army's WCAP's taken this too the extreme with respect to "...the Army program has always recruited talent for WCAP, for WCAP sake." Their current Rift Valley Foreign Legion approach skews the opportunities that guys like you ... no kidding OT qualifiers ... have with making the team. Indeed, I do BEGRUDGE their current model in a big way. Particularly, given the limited evidence that these guys finish out their enlistment outside WCAP or pursue careers similar to you and Chaplain Found.

Qualifying Standards Ignored?? wrote:

This quote from Katam when he left UNCG early

""The Army is going to pay for me to finish my undergrad and to go to graduate school," Katam, 23, said by phone this morning."

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QSI: it's all about TAKE, TAKE, TAKE w/these guys ... hopefully, UNC-G vectored his scholarship to a deserving student-athlete who wants to be apart of a winning program versus being just a winner.

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Delusional: aaaah ... plenty of folks are appreciating this madness you proclaim.

- Axe to Grind: No Kidding ... yes, I don't approve of the WCAP's Rift Valley Foreign Legion approach to fielding a team.

- Major Browne Promotion: laughing about "giving up a promotion" ... he was passed over ... he didn't give up anything, unless your telling me he withdrew his name for promotion. He's scamming the heck out of this program ... who's pulling his real job right now while he pseudo-leads his detachment of the WCAP Rift Valley Foreign Legion.

- Glad to hear you know Major Browne .... I'm sure it wasn't in the field or in a deployed environment ... probably at the track or him passing out basketballs at the gym on a Major's salary.

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- You're going to need better Talking Points than that .... start naming some other WCAP than the SSG Racewalker reflected on the website.

- I've got a VERY professional versus PERSONAL axe to grind with Major Dan "The Scam" Browne! I'm sure he's a great guy, heck ... if he was my neighbor I'd probably tell him to borrow my power tools w/o asking. Likely not to bitch if his dog accidentally shit in my yard. That said, yes ... I'm calling him & his "enablers" -- the Oregon National Guard & WCAP out. Stay tuned!

Focus on the CURRENT roster and then name all the runners that are Non-Kenyan

Maybe one if you consider a walker as some form of a runner

The WCAP website does not list any Non-Kenyan runners - ZERO

So either your experience is old or you are the one that is stubborn and have no desire to be objective.

To make it easy for you to do some research here are the facts:

http://www.armymwr.com/wcap/track-field.aspx