Do elite train in flats?

You are probably seeking the information about Katana Racer like where you can buy them, etc. Then you'd get disappointed but here's what I have: Katana Racer was developed in Japan by a gentleman named Inotani at Nike Japan (this is why it used to be nicknamed "Air Inotch"). One of the things he worked on was to lower the height of the heel--reworked Zoom Air (sack) by adding some cloth-like material on the top and the bottom of the air unit. He also spent a lot of effort into the insole as well. It took them about 5 years to finalize the concept. They were, as well as other Japan-made Katana series, were tested by Shinji Kawashima, the 2000 Olympic marathon representative. He said that he didn't completely like Nike racing shoes until Katana series came out. He said he trained and raced all in the same pair. Paul Tergat runs in Katana seies but not Katana Racer.

excellent info... aside from the plastic on the bottom, the shoe seems appropriate for those of us who prefer a natural "ground feel." And I guess this "Asian last" they keep talking about essentially means a wider forefoot? ...that would be perfect for me. thanx much for the info, Nobby.

Trackhead,

I stumbled on this thread and your thoughts recently.

I've worn the Asics 2000's and Adrenalines since about 96 when I started running. Have always lived with alot of soreness, achy calves, it band problems, etc. and chalked it up to needing to stretch more. Got orthotics last year which did help some heel pain but not much else.

I am not fast and weigh 200 plus. 10K (51:00) 5K (23:17). Run 20-40 mpw. half of those miles on trails.

For the last month, I run in Mavericks making an attempt to go more to your way of thinking. Feels great to be in a lighter shoe more like I'm actually floating a bit. I am pretty sore after though. Is this likely just the adjustment?

What shoes could I try next? thought maybe DS Trainers as I like fit of the asics. Your thoughts, please.

The soreness can be attributed to your muscles/soft tissues becoming accustomed to a little more impact, and at the same time, as you progress into thinner shoes, you should notice more of a change in how you meet the ground. You'll "crash" far less than you may have in normal shoes.

The DS-Trainer is a likely candidate for your next shoe, with minimal heel/forefoot height differences. For perspective, my own progression went Kayano-->2080-->DS-Trainer/Burn-->Tiger Paw-->Streak XC/T3-->H Street/Maxcat Street.

Trackhead:

Have you tried ASICS Hyper Paw?

Ok, I am seriously considering going the minimal route after years of orthotics and support/stability shoes and many injuries. Is the natural progression to first lose the orthotics, then move from the stability shoes to less and less shoe before ending up in something like the Streak XC or Free? How about barefoot running on a treadmill since I live in Ohio and this time of year gets a bit chilly to be running around barefoot outside?

Did you have any injuries with the orthotics support/stability shoes? If no injuries then why are you considering the change, going to just training in the Nike Free after training in what you been in has to increase the chance of injury, don't you think. I want to train in the Free but the risk of injury is too high.

I have had many problems with the orthotics and stability shoes. It makes me wonder if using them hasn't created more problems than were solved. I got orthotics originally due to having a stress fracture in my foot. The doctor said that excessive pronation was the culprit. Since that time, I have had back and calf problems on going for years.

Trackhead, any advice????

What shoes, specifically, are you training in?

are you going to answer this question trackhead?

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1025997&page=2

Structure Triax and Kantara (at least before my last sciatica flare up).

Just curious if you could give me a general idea of the thickness and softness(lack there of hopefully)....of the rc550..

I can comment, as I am very familiar with these shoes. The Kantara and Structure Triax are both extremely thick. By adding orthotics, you are essentially running in boots. These shoes force you to "plod" and do not really promote any efficiency. If you are interested in trying a different course, maybe skip the orthotics and try something like the Asics DS Trainer. This is certainly lower than the Nikes and also quite stable. Find a nice low, flexible shoe for your everyday shoe (this is very important). You will probably have to introduce a lower shoe with very short runs, but take it slow and be sure to do your lower leg stretching.

Disclaimer: I'm sure there are very fast people who run in both of those shoes (ie: Ritz & Kennedy), so no offense intended.

Are there any Nikes that you would recommend as they have always been my brand of choice?

Well, The Zoom Elite is a little less shoe than the Structure/Kantara. You actually might also check out the Zoom Marathoner. I've found those to be quite similar to the NB900 - low and stable. They will give you a little firmer ride than you are used to, so take it gradually.

Unfortunately there are very few lower heeled stabil shoes by NIKE. They are known for their soft midsole feel. I used to love nike's as well throughout College they were my brand of choice as well. As I have become a little more knowledgeable about footwear and efficient form, I now see the importance of wearing a lower profile shoe with a slightly firmer midsole than nike provides. Since, the trend for shoe companies in the USA has gone to the more heeled, soft cushioned stability midsole, it has become a little more difficult to find good footwear. You may want to look into the Asics ultimate 81's. Go to www.zappos.com to check them out. They are a classic model that used to be the standard training shoe in the early 80's. It is made of synthetic mesh and eva compresson midsole. It is about the same heel to toe ratio as today's racing flats, however it's midsole is a firmer density so it will last up to 300 to 500 miles of use depending upon your weight and your efficiency. I would recommend gradually transitioning into more minimal footwear and spending more time with running form to allow your body to handle the impact of running on its own. Good luck!

So, it would be good to go with the Elite and no orthotics and work down to the Marathoner? I will be starting back from scratch anyhow due to my most recent injury problems.

My only concern with the Elite is that it still might be too high. A lower shoe will be inherently more stable so just make sure you are not rolling in excessively. Check it out and see how it works.